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Thread: School District says all fenced school areas are "buildings"

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    School District says all fenced school areas are "buildings"

    The Hockinson School District (where my kids go to school) put up a six foot tall black chainlink fence with privacy slats around the entire school, excluding the parking lot. This makes it more difficult to just walk on campus. I have been informed that the school district is now considering the entire fenced area as the 'school building' and I will no longer be allowed to carry my defensive sidearm while dropping off my child at her classroom. I usually walk her to her Kindergarten classroom door which is outside, and don't walk through any buildings.
    Can they redefine what a building is? Is it legal for the district to do this? I am licensed under RCW 9.41.070 so I am allowed to carry while dropping off or picking up a student, as long as I do not enter a building. (see full reading of RCW 9.41.280 for reference).

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    NAL, but I think they're full of it and any real lawyer could get any charges stemming from you being harassed for it tossed out. Depends on which dictionary they use to define it.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    sorry op, as much as the collective whines state otherwise, they can do any bloody thing they want to until someone points out the error of their ways...

    now, please look in a mirror, point a finger at the mirror and say the sentence over and over again to your reflection until you feel engaged...

    "i will not tolerate this and will do something about it"

    now that you have the mantra...go do something about it tiger...

    BTW...who is this mythical "i have been informed..." you heard this rumor from....do us all a favor and verify your 'i have been informed' by someone of import in the school district....

    ipse
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    A lie unchallenged is accepted as fact/truth. Refute and correct it.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    sorry op, as much as the collective whines state otherwise, they can do any bloody thing they want to until someone points out the error of their ways...

    now, please look in a mirror, point a finger at the mirror and say the sentence over and over again to your reflection until you feel engaged...

    "i will not tolerate this and will do something about it"

    now that you have the mantra...go do something about it tiger...

    BTW...who is this mythical "i have been informed..." you heard this rumor from....do us all a favor and verify your 'i have been informed' by someone of import in the school district....

    ipse
    I received a call from the assistant principal at the elementary school my children attend. That is how I was informed. I will be following up with the district superintendent to get a written statement. Thank you for pointing out that a phone conversation cannot be tracked and your encouragement. Sometimes having someone point out the obvious is needed, thanks!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Woodrow View Post
    I received a call from the assistant principal at the elementary school my children attend. That is how I was informed. I will be following up with the district superintendent to get a written statement. Thank you for pointing out that a phone conversation cannot be tracked and your encouragement. Sometimes having someone point out the obvious is needed, thanks!
    thanks for sharing the source and a suggestion...

    you know you might just approach it as a rumor heard like can you confirm approach with the district superintendent and just happen to have a written prepared counter argument and then play dumb...you know... 'you guys are not really thinking of doing something this brash which, pointing at the counter argument, against the law? i couldn't imagine nor think of the backlash to all concerned if main stream media, social media, ad nauseam heard about this nefarious scheme.

    just a thought...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 02-08-2016 at 10:31 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    I would do a records request to inspect records relating to the fence and policies.

    Get facts from records .. not from officials ... then go to next public meeting and complain.

    How many times have school officials say one thing only to be shown to have lied when records show different.

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    RCW 9.41.290 and 300 prohibit them from making laws or rules pertaining to firearms.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    RCW 9.41.290 and 300 prohibit them from making laws or rules pertaining to firearms.
    Any penalty for them violating the law?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Any penalty for them violating the law?
    Nope not unless someone is harmed by their actions and you civilly sue them
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    RCW 9.41.290 and 300 do not seem to address whether or not a school (school district) has the authority to define the boundaries of its facilities. Get the school district to put it in writing then talk to a attorney.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ...go do something about it tiger...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A lie unchallenged is accepted as fact/truth. Refute and correct it.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    go to next public meeting and complain. .
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Any penalty for them violating the law?
    Citizenship is a Verb. Action is required and it seems to be falling upon your shoulders. As for the "penalty", that will be your lawsuit. Do not let the camel put his nose where it does not belong.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Was the fence a coincidence that they are now wanting to use against you, or did they put up a privacy fence because they wanted to use it against you?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Was the fence a coincidence that they are now wanting to use against you, or did they put up a privacy fence because they wanted to use it against you?
    They put up the fence for security reasons. However the assistant principal did know I carry onto campus, we have discussed it in depth in three separate and respectful conversations. I do not know if the fence has anything to do specifically with me and my actions.
    However, when I noticed the fence having been erected, I took the time to secure my firearm in my vehicle according to state law, entered the office and thanked them for their actions (installing the fence/ securing campus).
    I stated again my concern for my family's security and asked that they pass on the thanks for the district's actions to protect students in a meaningful way. It seems the spirit of my gratefulness was misunderstood, and my thanks for being a parent who compliments instead of complaining is to be punished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Woodrow View Post
    The Hockinson School District (where my kids go to school) put up a six foot tall black chainlink fence with privacy slats around the entire school, excluding the parking lot. This makes it more difficult to just walk on campus. I have been informed that the school district is now considering the entire fenced area as the 'school building' and I will no longer be allowed to carry my defensive sidearm while dropping off my child at her classroom. I usually walk her to her Kindergarten classroom door which is outside, and don't walk through any buildings.
    Can they redefine what a building is? Is it legal for the district to do this? I am licensed under RCW 9.41.070 so I am allowed to carry while dropping off or picking up a student, as long as I do not enter a building. (see full reading of RCW 9.41.280 for reference).
    NAL, but if school "leadership" is defining a fence as a building, not only is this impossible, but you might want to look into a different school.

    You can't go "in" a fence. You can go "in" a fenced-off area. You can go "thru" a fence.

    And to go on the other side, yay for the school district to limiting the view of the school. Field of vision reduced to 100' or less? PERFECT! Bad people who shoot up schools will never think there are children there. I mean, it's not like it says "Elementary School" or looks like one, or makes noises like one.

    What. A. Bunch. Of. Morons.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Woodrow View Post
    They put up the fence for security reasons. However the assistant principal did know I carry onto campus, we have discussed it in depth in three separate and respectful conversations. I do not know if the fence has anything to do specifically with me and my actions.
    However, when I noticed the fence having been erected, I took the time to secure my firearm in my vehicle according to state law, entered the office and thanked them for their actions (installing the fence/ securing campus).
    I stated again my concern for my family's security and asked that they pass on the thanks for the district's actions to protect students in a meaningful way. It seems the spirit of my gratefulness was misunderstood, and my thanks for being a parent who compliments instead of complaining is to be punished.
    in a confined GFZ where nobody can escape......

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ...six foot tall black chain link fence with privacy slats around the entire school, excluding the parking lot.
    Limited ingress...choke points...predetermined fields of fire.

    Hmm...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I'd say continue to do what you are doing and then sue if they try to have you arrested.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seriona View Post
    I'd say continue to do what you are doing and then sue if they try to have you arrested.
    after you are arrested...not if they try...

    just pointing out the obvious...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Woodrow View Post
    The Hockinson School District (where my kids go to school) put up a six foot tall black chainlink fence with privacy slats around the entire school, excluding the parking lot. This makes it more difficult to just walk on campus. I have been informed that the school district is now considering the entire fenced area as the 'school building' and I will no longer be allowed to carry my defensive sidearm while dropping off my child at her classroom. I usually walk her to her Kindergarten classroom door which is outside, and don't walk through any buildings.
    Can they redefine what a building is? Is it legal for the district to do this? I am licensed under RCW 9.41.070 so I am allowed to carry while dropping off or picking up a student, as long as I do not enter a building. (see full reading of RCW 9.41.280 for reference).
    I suspect that they are trying to use the broad definition of building found in RCW 9a.04.110 (5)

    (5) "Building," in addition to its ordinary meaning, includes any dwelling, fenced area, vehicle, railway car, cargo container, or any other structure used for lodging of persons or for carrying on business therein, or for the use, sale, or deposit of goods; each unit of a building consisting of two or more units separately secured or occupied is a separate building;
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    I suspect that they are trying to use the broad definition of building found in RCW 9a.04.110 (5)

    (5) "Building," in addition to its ordinary meaning, includes any dwelling, fenced area, vehicle, railway car, cargo container, or any other structure used for lodging of persons or for carrying on business therein, or for the use, sale, or deposit of goods; each unit of a building consisting of two or more units separately secured or occupied is a separate building;

    Also, see here for how case law and legislation evolved to include fenced areas as buildings for the crime of burglary. My guess is that they will try to extrapolate it to your circumstances.


    http://courts.mrsc.org/mc/courts/zsu...49wn2d0342.htm
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If I defined my horse's tail as a leg, how many legs would my horse have?
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    RCW 9.41.290 and 300 do not seem to address whether or not a school (school district) has the authority to define the boundaries of its facilities. Get the school district to put it in writing then talk to a attorney.
    If it's not specifically authorized in RCW 9.41.300 then RCW 9.41.290 automatically applies.
    "Loyalty above all else except honor. " -John Mahoney

    "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." -Gerald R. Ford

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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    If it's not specifically authorized in RCW 9.41.300 then RCW 9.41.290 automatically applies.
    Let me rephrase.

    RCW 9.41.290 and 300 do not seem to address whether or not a school (school district) has the authority to define the boundaries of its own facilities. School is mentioned only once in 300 and that reference is for the location of a gun store and its proximity to a school.

    What RCW authorizes a school to, or prohibits a school from, defining the boundaries of its own facilities.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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