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Thread: 2016:SB626 I don't know what planet I'm on any more!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    2016:SB626 I don't know what planet I'm on any more!

    SB 626 provides for any person not otherwise prohibited from carrying a firearm, who is granted a protective order, may use that protective order as a Concealed Handgun Permit, with a few more details and conditions.

    Today, this bill passed the full Senate with an overwhelming 32-8 margin, SIX more votes than would be needed to override any McAuliffe veto.

    This alone is enough to turn one's world upside down, but wait, there's more.

    VSSA is reporting via Twitter that 1: Not only did Senator Dick Saslaw vote FOR the bill, but

    2: Senator Dick Saslaw stood and spoke on the floor in FAVOR of the bill, saying, ""better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

    Seriously, what planet am I on?

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I'd bet the context is something like: "I am in favor of this bill because it makes sense. We already have people that feel threatened that carry a firearm anyway, thinking that it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, so we ought to help them out by making it legal.

    I'M JUST GUESSING, and am by no means an expert in VA politicians. But that's just my gut thinking what a politician would say, and what a twitter would get out of it.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Had to check my calendar to make sure I hadn't pulled a Van Winkle and slept 'till April Fool's Day.

    Are the Dems trying to distance themselves from the anti-gun rhetoric, will they vote for Constitutional Carry next? I don't think so.

    Maybe this is just a crumb being tossed out, enabling the likes of Saslaw to show that he is willing to accept responsible compromise. There has got to be more behind this. Is Saslaw up for reelection soon?
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Had to check my calendar to make sure I hadn't pulled a Van Winkle and slept 'till April Fool's Day.
    I know, right!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Is Saslaw up for reelection soon?
    But that's always been the problem with Saslaw. His district is overwhelmingly anti-gun. This will hurt him among his constituents, not help him.

    TFred

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I know, right!?!?


    But that's always been the problem with Saslaw. His district is overwhelmingly anti-gun. This will hurt him among his constituents, not help him.

    TFred
    Maybe not, TFred. SB626 balances the scales for the antis when weighted against the one that strips gun rights from anyone served with a permanent protective order. That bill takes away the gun threat by the abuser, and SB626 puts one in the hands of the threatened.

    Saslaw's constituents may not be pro-gun, but they are definitely anti-violence.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    Maybe they're waiting for an "incident" so they can trumpet, "Look, We TOLD you so".
    And take it all back.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Is Saslaw up for reelection?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Maybe not, TFred. SB626 balances the scales for the antis when weighted against the one that strips gun rights from anyone served with a permanent protective order. That bill takes away the gun threat by the abuser, and SB626 puts one in the hands of the threatened.

    Saslaw's constituents may not be pro-gun, but they are definitely anti-violence.
    This is exactly my take, well except perhaps for the anti-violence bit. It would also seem that this type of bill could really do damage to legislators who claim that they support the 2nd Amendment, but also support "common sense measures", but then fail to support a bill like this. Except for the true blue antis who hate guns in anyones hand, this would seem to be a bill that could draw wide support.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    no re-election any time soon

    The entire Virginia Senate was elected last fall (2015) for 4 year terms.
    This seems massively out of character.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    But that's always been the problem with Saslaw. His district is overwhelmingly anti-gun.
    Do you have evidence to back this assertion? Or is merely feeding upon (and in turn feeding) your latent preconceptions?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Do you have evidence to back this assertion? Or is merely feeding upon (and in turn feeding) your latent preconceptions?
    Congratulations, you win "Stupid Question of the Week" award.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Congratulations, you win "Stupid Question of the Week" award.

    TFred
    Marshall actually had two questions TFred and neither of them was stupid.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Perhaps it would be easier to grasp if TFred's statement had been worded thusly:

    "Saslaw's district has regularly elected anti-gun represenatives."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Marshall actually had two questions TFred and neither of them was stupid.
    I don't answer questions that amount to "What day is it?"

    If you want to waste your time on such drivel, knock yourself out.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Do you have evidence to back this assertion? Or is merely feeding upon (and in turn feeding) your latent preconceptions?
    Speaking as someone who was, until last month, a constituent of Saslaw's, the majority of the residents lean heavily Democratic, and the Republican party has never really put up more than a token candidate. I never had a problem open carrying in the area, but all of my elected officials (from Penny Gross and Kaye Kory to Jim Moran and later Don Beyer) were extremely anti-gun. Each election, all I could do was vote against them, for all the good it did.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Do you have evidence to back this assertion? Or is merely feeding upon (and in turn feeding) your latent preconceptions?
    Heck, even I know that Saslaw is a rabid anti-gunner and I'm not even a Virginia resident. The only evidence I want to see is a video of Saslaw actually making such an out-of-character statement. Sounds too good to be true in my humble opinion.

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    Forgive me for being skeptical…,

    but I can't help but think there's something missing here…, what have they got up their sleeve, did we miss a step somewhere? Where's all this seemingly sudden awakening on the Dem side to what we've known all along coming from? Ya' know that old saying, "if it looks/sounds/seems too good to be true". Can't stop that little voice from whispering that, but I'm gonna keep watching…, from a distance.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    Speaking as someone who was, until last month, a constituent of Saslaw's, the majority of the residents lean heavily Democratic, and the Republican party has never really put up more than a token candidate. I never had a problem open carrying in the area, but all of my elected officials (from Penny Gross and Kaye Kory to Jim Moran and later Don Beyer) were extremely anti-gun. Each election, all I could do was vote against them, for all the good it did.
    No doubt. But that isn't what I asked.

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    I don't know what planet I'm on any more!
    Earth. Solar System. Milky Way. Third watery rock out from the central star of that system.

    Gotta admit the Saslaw comment would make a fella wonder, though.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    What happens to the defensive rights of the person who the protective order is against?

    Seems to me this was in the news very just recently. Something about a person having to give up his means to self-defense (losing an enumerated right) upon the issuance of a protective order (not conviction based on evidence weighed by jury of peers).
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Just goes to show how strong the whacked-out victim-mode feminist lobby is. Protective orders are almost all granted to women against men, the men are deprived of their ability to defend themselves, and now the women can carry concealed. They're going to get SOME man back for what some man did to traumatize them as children. No question that child abuse and spousal abuse are bad, and what people do in that regard is evil. But what's going on here is that a significant minority of the population is psychologically damaged, very highly focussed, politically active, determined, and persistent. They can't let go, they can't do love and forgiveness, so they live in a hell of their own making, a sort of recursive hate machine. "People who are abused as children grow up to be abusers." is a truism among the social workers, and it makes perfect sense. Those people have internalized a worldview that depersonalizes their victims. I know where this is heading, y'all - more work for lawyers.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Just goes to show how strong the whacked-out victim-mode feminist lobby is. Protective orders are almost all granted to women against men, the men are deprived of their ability to defend themselves, and now the women can carry concealed. They're going to get SOME man back for what some man did to traumatize them as children. No question that child abuse and spousal abuse are bad, and what people do in that regard is evil. But what's going on here is that a significant minority of the population is psychologically damaged, very highly focussed, politically active, determined, and persistent. They can't let go, they can't do love and forgiveness, so they live in a hell of their own making, a sort of recursive hate machine. "People who are abused as children grow up to be abusers." is a truism among the social workers, and it makes perfect sense. Those people have internalized a worldview that depersonalizes their victims. I know where this is heading, y'all - more work for lawyers.
    Thank you. This makes more sense than anything I could come up with.

    The bold part of your reply makes me wonder how our good old friend Joe Morrisey would have voted on this one, if he were still a Delegate!

    TFred

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    It's because Democrats always court the female vote. Females are usually the party seeking a protective order, and anything empowering females is something the Democrats are like to be for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin108 View Post
    It's because Democrats always court the female vote. Females are usually the party seeking a protective order, and anything [which can be made to appear to be] empowering females is something the Democrats are like to be for.
    friendly amendment to the text - demogoguery works by helping the self-absorbed believe that the world will be as they wish it to be. And the big problem with people in victim-mode is their extreme self-absorption and self-importance.
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