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Thread: Bandanna Wearing Man NOT Robbing the Pharmacy

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Bandanna Wearing Man NOT Robbing the Pharmacy

    But how did they know he was carrying, if he was carrying concealed?

    Seems like something is missing here.

    TFred

    Man wearing bandana for health reasons causes robbery scare at Petersburg pharmacy

    Police tell 8News they were called to a reported robbery in progress at the CVS at 2100 S. Crater Road at approximately 9:30 a.m. Once on scene, police learned that 27-year-old Toddaryl Brown allegedly wore a bandana over the lower part of his face to shield a health concern. He was also in possession of a weapon that did not have a proper permit. He was charged with one felony count of wearing a mask and creating a public alarm as well as misdemeanors for a concealed weapon violation and disorderly conduct.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Once on scene [and after proning the guy out, handcuffing him after beating him several times with orders to "stop resisting", and finally asking him WTF he was doing wearing a bandanna mask] [and without the required doctor's note]
    Seems the report just figured you would know all the petty details.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Really????

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Seems the report just figured you would know all the petty details.

    stay safe.
    Sooo Skid,, where did you get that thing that looks like a quote,, about proning and beating?
    I didnt see it in the news report...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ...one felony count of wearing a mask...
    Halloween must be a hoot...

    Another check mark in the "Don't go to VA" column.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  5. #5
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Halloween must be a hoot...

    Another check mark in the "Don't go to VA" column.
    Halloween doesn't really count, but yes, you do need a doctor's note if it is for medical reasons!

    TFred

    § 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

    It shall be unlawful for any person over 16 years of age to, with the intent to conceal his identity, wear any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons

    (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes
    ;
    (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;
    (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or
    (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver.

    The violation of any provisions of this section is a Class 6 felony.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Halloween doesn't really count, but yes, you do need a doctor's note if it is for medical reasons!

    TFred

    § 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

    It shall be unlawful for any person over 16 years of age to, with the intent to conceal his identity, wear any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons

    (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes
    ;
    (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;
    (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or
    (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver.

    The violation of any provisions of this section is a Class 6 felony.
    Beyond the exceptions, the prosecutor will have to demonstrate intent, since the Code requires that the felony is only applicable to someone who is wearing a mask with the intent to conceal his identity.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Halloween doesn't really count, but yes, you do need a doctor's note if it is for medical reasons! ...
    Why not? Officer discretion?

    What is a traditional holiday costume, who decides? The point behind a "traditional holiday costume" is to conceal the wearers identity if I am not mistaken.

    "...any public place, or upon any private property..." Seems like anywhere is everywhere. Does a 17 y/o need a note from his mom/dad to mask-up at home and in writing?

    A felony...

    Then again, it is the law and all...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    By the letter of the law, when I walk into a hospital and they require a mask but do not supply a doctor's note, I'm a law violator.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    By the letter of the law, when I walk into a hospital and they require a mask but do not supply a doctor's note, I'm a law violator.
    No, you're covered under (ii):

    (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Sooo Skid,, where did you get that thing that looks like a quote,, about proning and beating?
    I didnt see it in the news report...
    The guy was stopped, detained, and arrested, wasn't he? Are those events not part of the process of being stopped, detained, and arrested?

    Do you not recognize any of the various uses for putting words between [] marks?

    Faith in humankind and/or sarcasm - your call.

    Of course, there is also the possibility that the cops discovered the gun in a pat-down search subsequent to detention/arrest and questioning of the arrestee about the gun they found and the lack of a physician's affidavit supporting the wearing of the mask for health reasons, after, of course, informing him of his rights against self-incrimination and to the presence and advice of an attorney before responding to custodial questioning.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  11. #11
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The guy was stopped, detained, and arrested, wasn't he? Are those events not part of the process of being stopped, detained, and arrested?

    Do you not recognize any of the various uses for putting words between [] marks?

    Faith in humankind and/or sarcasm - your call.

    Of course, there is also the possibility that the cops discovered the gun in a pat-down search subsequent to detention/arrest and questioning of the arrestee about the gun they found and the lack of a physician's affidavit supporting the wearing of the mask for health reasons, after, of course, informing him of his rights against self-incrimination and to the presence and advice of an attorney before responding to custodial questioning.

    stay safe.
    Yes,,, I do Not recognize the various uses for putting words between [] marks.
    In fact I dont think I recognize Any of the uses.
    I Do feel estupido now.
    Ive read you long enough that I should assume nothing,,,
    and question everything else you write.

    I think that Without the Quote bubble I would have seen "what you did there"

    Thanks for bringing me back up to speed.

    Just goes to show how fast I will loose my momentum again!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    From the OP FUQ:

    "He was also in possession of a weapon that did not have a proper permit."

    When did weapons (guns) start being required to have a permit?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    From the OP FUQ:

    "He was also in possession of a weapon that did not have a proper permit."

    When did weapons (guns) start being required to have a permit?
    and the PC for the nice LEs to discover that firearm?

    ipse
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    and the PC for the nice LEs to discover that firearm?

    ipse
    Simplicity itself mon ami...the mask!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Well there goes my wife wearing burka in VA...
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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Beyond the exceptions, the prosecutor will have to demonstrate intent, since the Code requires that the felony is only applicable to someone who is wearing a mask with the intent to conceal his identity.
    That is not how I read the code: I see it saying that if what ever you are wearing has the effect of covering enough of your face to conceal your identity you are guilty regardless of intent. that means when I go out in the cold and wrap a scarf around the lower part of my face to warm the air I am breathing in, I am guilty of this class 6 felony

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    That is not how I read the code: I see it saying that if what ever you are wearing has the effect of covering enough of your face to conceal your identity you are guilty regardless of intent. that means when I go out in the cold and wrap a scarf around the lower part of my face to warm the air I am breathing in, I am guilty of this class 6 felony
    Read the code.

    "(ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;"

    Walking in cold weather is obviously an "other activity," and any mother will tell you that a scarf is essential for your physical safety!

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Read the code.

    "(ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;"

    Walking in cold weather is obviously an "other activity," and any mother will tell you that a scarf is essential for your physical safety!

    TFred
    Makes a good garrote too.

    Just ask Isadora Duncan.

    Can also be used as a sling, blindfold, tourniquet, gag, or dog leash.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    That is not how I read the code: I see it saying that if what ever you are wearing has the effect of covering enough of your face to conceal your identity you are guilty regardless of intent. that means when I go out in the cold and wrap a scarf around the lower part of my face to warm the air I am breathing in, I am guilty of this class 6 felony
    nope, it's a specific intent offense - it's not with the general intent to wear the bandanna having the incidental effect of concealing identity, the commonwealth has to prove that he intended to conceal his identity. now there is a standard jury instruction that says that a person can be presumed to have intended the natural and probable consequences of his actions, so he's going to have to get on the stand and say he had no intention of concealment. if I were representing him, I'd hammer the commonwealth's witnesses about whether or not they asked him who he was and if so what his response was, and make as much as I can about his intention to pay for what he was buying with a credit card which pretty much establishes his intention to state his identity accurately. Assuming for the sake of argument that the facts would support those arguments.

    By the way, if you wear a scarf or balaclava because of the cold weather, make sure you've got your doctor's affidavit with you.
    Last edited by user; 02-14-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Read the code.

    "(ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;"


    TFred
    If he was intending to rob the place, then robbery would be an "other activity," rendering him not guilty of the Felony mask charge. Or so some attorney might argue.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Btw, as to the original question, the fact that he was wearing a mask gave them probable cause to detain, and thus to search. I wonder whether his "health reason" was related to the cold weather. Interesting that there is no exemption for cold weather clothing - I just came in from taking the dog out with a watch cap covering my eyebrows up and a scarf from my eyeglasses down. My wife asked me whether there was a husband in there, or was it the invisible man. Of course it was not my intention to conceal my identity, that was incidental. This is one of those crimes that's really created to tack on for additional punishment when they get someone for burglary, rape, robbery, murder, etc. I'd repeal it if I were king.


    I wonder what the weapon was. I had a client recently who got arrested for concealed weapon because he had a kitchen knife in his car.

    And "creating a public alarm"? what's the code section for that one, I wonder. This one, perhaps?

    § 18.2-415. Disorderly conduct in public places. —

    A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with the intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

    A. In any street, highway, public building, or while in or on a public conveyance, or public place engages in conduct having a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, such conduct is directed; or

    B. Willfully or being intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts any funeral, memorial service, or meeting of the governing body of any political subdivision of this Commonwealth or a division or agency thereof, or of any school, literary society or place of religious worship, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the funeral, memorial service, or meeting or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed; or

    C. Willfully or while intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts the operation of any school or any activity conducted or sponsored by any school, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the operation or activity or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed.

    However, the conduct prohibited under subdivision A, B or C of this section shall not be deemed to include the utterance or display of any words or to include conduct otherwise made punishable under this title.

    The person in charge of any such building, place, conveyance, meeting, operation or activity may eject therefrom any person who violates any provision of this section, with the aid, if necessary, of any persons who may be called upon for such purpose.

    The governing bodies of counties, cities and towns are authorized to adopt ordinances prohibiting and punishing the acts and conduct prohibited by this section, provided that the punishment fixed therefor shall not exceed that prescribed for a Class 1 misdemeanor. A person violating any provision of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    Last edited by user; 02-14-2016 at 11:10 PM.
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