Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Handgun sale question

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    492

    Handgun sale question

    Hello all,
    I checked the "Law Library" section and didn't find exactly what I was looking for, so I thought I'd ask here in hopes that one (or more) of the lawyers that frequent this site will give me some guidance. I know a man who is in the military and is stationed in Virginia and he wants to sell a handgun he bought to another military man who is also stationed in Virginia. They are both permanently stationed here, not TDY. They both have Virginia mailing addresses and have been here for a while. Is it legal for the man to sell the gun to his friend without a back ground check? I don't want to give them bad advice that may cause them trouble later.

    Thanks in advance,

    roN

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,735
    I am not an attorney. If they are both legal residences of Va. then they can sell between each other. What I don't know is if Va. has a state law that disallows private sales. Do they have Va. driver licenses? Someone from Va. will pipe in with the correct answer per Va. law......

  3. #3
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844
    Quote Originally Posted by 6L6GC View Post
    Hello all,
    I checked the "Law Library" section and didn't find exactly what I was looking for, so I thought I'd ask here in hopes that one (or more) of the lawyers that frequent this site will give me some guidance. I know a man who is in the military and is stationed in Virginia and he wants to sell a handgun he bought to another military man who is also stationed in Virginia. They are both permanently stationed here, not TDY. They both have Virginia mailing addresses and have been here for a while. Is it legal for the man to sell the gun to his friend without a back ground check? I don't want to give them bad advice that may cause them trouble later.

    Thanks in advance,

    roN
    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...n18.2-308.2:2/

    Where the photo-identification was issued by the Department of Defense, permanent orders assigning the purchaser to a duty post in Virginia, including the Pentagon, shall be the only other required documentation of residence. For the purposes of this section and establishment of residency for firearm purchase, residency of a member of the armed forces shall include both the state in which the member's permanent duty post is located and any nearby state in which the member resides and from which he commutes to the permanent duty post
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...n18.2-308.2:2/

    Where the photo-identification was issued by the Department of Defense, permanent orders assigning the purchaser to a duty post in Virginia, including the Pentagon, shall be the only other required documentation of residence. For the purposes of this section and establishment of residency for firearm purchase, residency of a member of the armed forces shall include both the state in which the member's permanent duty post is located and any nearby state in which the member resides and from which he commutes to the permanent duty post
    What does this have to do with a private sale?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Leesburg VA
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    What does this have to do with a private sale?

    IIRC, orders are proof of residence. VA residents can do a private sale.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by blahpony View Post
    IIRC, orders are proof of residence. VA residents can do a private sale.
    Meh, don't need it.

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Yes. I suggest the use of my bill of sale form, available in pdf on my website.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,735
    A sale of your property to another does not always require a contract. Section 11-2(8) of the Virginia Code excludes from the statute of frauds any agreement that can be performed within one year of its execution, a writing is not needed so long as the contract can be performed within a year, even if only by some improbable event. Shiple v. Jackson, 56 Va. Cir. 235, 236 (Richmond 2001).

    The information that should only exist is whatever exists on form 4473. In other words, your private disposal of your property is your business. If you are going to keep any information I would only keep name and date of the person you disposed your property with. You may note that you looked at some form of state picture ID. In my view that would be it. Any other information is unimportant. A story by an attorney was just posted about talking to cops or any government official. It's not wise. 18 USC 1001 comes to mind.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post2181104

    I'm just say'n....

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    The answer to the OP's question, directly, is that there is no requirement for there to be a background check for this transaction.

    When I buy from a licensed dealer, at least I have some confidence that my private information (de facto registration) is held in a secure place. Not so when buying from a private seller. If I dislike the government having records of citizens' arms, why would I be okay with this info on a piece of paper in some Joe's file cabinet (or worse)? Shun bills of sale.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    A sale of your property to another does not always require a contract. Section 11-2(8) of the Virginia Code excludes from the statute of frauds any agreement that can be performed within one year of its execution, a writing is not needed so long as the contract can be performed within a year, even if only by some improbable event. Shiple v. Jackson, 56 Va. Cir. 235, 236 (Richmond 2001).

    The information that should only exist is whatever exists on form 4473. In other words, your private disposal of your property is your business. If you are going to keep any information I would only keep name and date of the person you disposed your property with. You may note that you looked at some form of state picture ID. In my view that would be it. Any other information is unimportant. A story by an attorney was just posted about talking to cops or any government official. It's not wise. 18 USC 1001 comes to mind.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post2181104

    I'm just say'n....
    Hogwash. Just because the statute of frauds doesn't require a written contract doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. If you give me cash money for a pencil in an informal transaction, that's a contract for the purchase and sale of personal property. Offer, acceptance, and consideration. Form 4473 is an official document, potentially publicly available (I can issue a subpoena to get me a copy), and has nothing to do with whether or not you can buy or sell a handgun within your own state in a transaction with another resident of the same state. I'll say it again, hogwash.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The answer to the OP's question, directly, is that there is no requirement for there to be a background check for this transaction.

    When I buy from a licensed dealer, at least I have some confidence that my private information (de facto registration) is held in a secure place. Not so when buying from a private seller. If I dislike the government having records of citizens' arms, why would I be okay with this info on a piece of paper in some Joe's file cabinet (or worse)? Shun bills of sale.
    And you say this clearly without having looked at mine. There's no information on it that identifies anyone other than that which is already public "directory information". And there are good reasons why you should use a bill of sale, and specifically my bill of sale, which you can learn about if you read the derned thing, and particularly the second page which contains the instructions. But, no doubt, you've been practicing personal defense law a lot longer than I have and clearly know more than I do. But I think you'd be an idiot not to use that form I've made available to the public for free. But then, there are people who blithely sign chattel mortgage agreements at new car dealers without reading them... I guess if you have a sufficiently optimistic nature and think that nothing bad will happen, just because you don't want it to, then you don't have to take the precautions that ordinary people do to protect themselves. Hell, why should you even have a gun, nothing bad is going to happen that could require you to defend yourself, right? Not in your world.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    And you say this clearly without having looked at mine. ... But I think you'd be an idiot...
    You assume too much. And as much as I disagree with you, I refuse to call you an idiot, or attempt to further interest you in a conversation with someone you deem so. Have a good day.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-14-2016 at 07:44 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    You assume too much. And as much as I disagree with you, I refuse to call you an idiot, nor attempt to further interest you in a conversation with someone you deem so. Have a good day.
    I didn't call you an idiot. I said "you" in the popularly accepted way of referring to "one who...", the "generalized you", not a "specific you"; and I expressed my opinion in the subjunctive mood, not as a statement of fact, but an opinion about something that may or may not be true. But I've seen lots of people do a lot of things which to my mind, as a practicing defense attorney, are just plain dumb, that I've given up trying to be polite about people doing things that are just plain dumb. You buy a gun from some dude without a bill of sale and it turns out to be a murder weapon, bingo, you're the murderer. Or you sell one to someone who turns out to be a convicted felon, bingo, you had reason to know he was ineligible, because you've got no evidence to the contrary. Why take those kinds of risks? Particularly in an arms length transaction with someone you don't really know. Why should the purchaser not give you an affidavit assuring you that he is, in fact, eligible to receive possession of a firearm, and why should the seller be unwilling to affirm that he is in fact the owner or authorized by the owner to sell the gun because it isn't stolen? Eh?

    Well, this question falls into the "you pays your money and you takes your choice" category - but as those of us who spend a lot of time in court say, "well, you can pay me now or pay me later... but it's going to cost a lot more if you wait 'till later."
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I didn't call you an idiot. I said "you" in the popularly accepted way of referring to "one who...", the "generalized you", not a "specific you"; and I expressed my opinion in the subjunctive mood, not as a statement of fact, but an opinion about something that may or may not be true. But I've seen lots of people do a lot of things which to my mind, as a practicing defense attorney, are just plain dumb, that I've given up trying to be polite about people doing things that are just plain dumb. You buy a gun from some dude without a bill of sale and it turns out to be a murder weapon, bingo, you're the murderer. Or you sell one to someone who turns out to be a convicted felon, bingo, you had reason to know he was ineligible, because you've got no evidence to the contrary. Why take those kinds of risks? Particularly in an arms length transaction with someone you don't really know. Why should the purchaser not give you an affidavit assuring you that he is, in fact, eligible to receive possession of a firearm, and why should the seller be unwilling to affirm that he is in fact the owner or authorized by the owner to sell the gun because it isn't stolen? Eh?

    Well, this question falls into the "you pays your money and you takes your choice" category - but as those of us who spend a lot of time in court say, "well, you can pay me now or pay me later... but it's going to cost a lot more if you wait 'till later."
    LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of people do not want a record of their personal property transactions for a myriad of reasons.

    2) How is the firearm in my possession going to be determined to be a murder weapon? Especially since I bought it from a guy without any paperwork.

    3) You sound a little odd for a defense attorney...you certainly have a funny idea of proof beyond a reasonable doubt oir heck enven probable cause or even reasonable suspicion.

    I'll tell you what. Next time the police come to my door asking about a firearm I bought/sold, I'll tell them hand on a second. Walk into my office download & print out your silly form...fill in fake data and hand it to the cops. Problem solved!

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    ...
    3) You sound a little odd for a defense attorney...you certainly have a funny idea of proof beyond a reasonable doubt oir heck enven probable cause or even reasonable suspicion.
    ...
    Hah! I love it! You got that in one... anyone who knows me will tell you I'm a LOT odd for a defense attorney. And I take great pleasure, no, I revel in it. I do trials, I'm not a plea-bargain factory. And that means I have to really, truly know what I'm doing in both civil and criminal cases. Think that's odd, eh? I tell you, that one makes my day.

    Most defense lawyers don't carry lightning bolts around with them, either. (Thanks and acknowledgement to Peter Nap for the amusing portraiture.)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dan.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	67.5 KB 
ID:	12983

    By the way, with respect to issues of probable cause and reasonable suspicion. You litigate those issues a lot, do you? Tell you my perspective, first gained from listening to my uncle who was a police chief - he cautioned me never to put my hands in my pockets while shopping - that's grounds for an arrest for shoplifting (or what today would be called, "concealment of merchandise"). And it doesn't happen to most people most of the time, but that, or things just like it, happen to perfectly normal citizens all the time. I suggest you take a day off and go down to your local courthouse and sit in on the misdemeanor docket some day. As Otto Von Bismarck said as Chancellor of Germany, "Those who love the law and sausages should not observe the process by which either is made." I think those sausages are made out of just plain folks who for whatever reason get ground up in the "criminal justice system". It is criminal, in my mind, the way it works. So my answer is to know how it works and how to work it. It doesn't pay to be a romantic idealist when it comes to criminal prosecutions.

    But the bill of sale form, to me, is not a matter for argument. Use it or not as you see fit; it's a free public service, if you want it, take it. But ultimately, I don't care whether anyone takes my advice or not, I'm not the one going out of the courtroom via the side door. Funny thing about that, some of my most loyal clients are people who don't do what I tell them.
    Last edited by user; 02-14-2016 at 10:57 PM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Hah! I love it! You got that in one... anyone who knows me will tell you I'm a LOT odd for a defense attorney. And I take great pleasure, no, I revel in it. I do trials, I'm not a plea-bargain factory. And that means I have to really, truly know what I'm doing in both civil and criminal cases. Think that's odd, eh? I tell you, that one makes my day.

    Most defense lawyers don't carry lightning bolts around with them, either. (Thanks and acknowledgement to Peter Nap for the amusing portraiture.)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dan.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	67.5 KB 
ID:	12983

    By the way, with respect to issues of probable cause and reasonable suspicion. You litigate those issues a lot, do you? Tell you my perspective, first gained from listening to my uncle who was a police chief - he cautioned me never to put my hands in my pockets while shopping - that's grounds for an arrest for shoplifting (or what today would be called, "concealment of merchandise"). And it doesn't happen to most people most of the time, but that, or things just like it, happen to perfectly normal citizens all the time. I suggest you take a day off and go down to your local courthouse and sit in on the misdemeanor docket some day. As Otto Von Bismarck said as Chancellor of Germany, "Those who love the law and sausages should not observe the process by which either is made." I think those sausages are made out of just plain folks who for whatever reason get ground up in the "criminal justice system". It is criminal, in my mind, the way it works. So my answer is to know how it works and how to work it. It doesn't pay to be a romantic idealist when it comes to criminal prosecutions.

    But the bill of sale form, to me, is not a matter for argument. Use it or not as you see fit; it's a free public service, if you want it, take it. But ultimately, I don't care whether anyone takes my advice or not, I'm not the one going out of the courtroom via the side door. Funny thing about that, some of my most loyal clients are people who don't do what I tell them.
    I've got a couple hundred hours in court, thanks. Arraignments, PC hearings, Misdemeanor and felony trials. I still stand by my observations.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    I've got a couple hundred hours in court, thanks. Arraignments, PC hearings, Misdemeanor and felony trials. I still stand by my observations.
    That's good, so you'll understand my analogy to the M*A*S*H expression, "meatball surgery", when I say that the local misdemeanor and traffic court is "meatball justice". The good ones function like assembly line factory production. The occasional defendant who really is, "not guilty", gets ground up anyway in that machine because his lawyer isn't "odd", but a cog in a machine who knows what's expected of him and doesn't make waves, because he's a system guy working in The System. And the sad thing is that the poor bastard has to pay money for the privilege of being ground up; he doesn't quite know what's going on, the person whom he trusts to interpret that reality for him is telling him "Listen, when the judge hears what the cop has to say, you're going to be found guilty and go to jail for a long time, unless you take the prosecutor's offer. Plead guilty and I can get you a reduced sentence."

    When I do "damage control" by negotiating a plea, the first thing I do is tell the client the matter is entirely his choice, and he doesn't have to do anything one way or the other; he's got rights and he can stand on those rights. Of course, all decisions have consequences, but what I think is a risk, he may not, and vice-versa, so I can't substitute my judgement for his. What I can do is explain his options to him, the risks and benefits of each option, tell him what I recommend, and why I recommend it. And what it boils down to is always like the tv show, "Let's Make a Deal", in which Monty Hall tells the contestant that they have three options: they can hold on to the cash, they can take the box, or they can go for the curtain in front of which Carol is now standing. The defendant can take the cash, a known quantity that represents a relatively fixed deal in which the consequences are known (i.e., the prosecutor's offer), they can go for the box (much the same in size as the first option, but with some unknowns) which represents simply pleading guilty and arguing sentencing before the judge (often the prosecutors play hardball thinking that a lawyer will want to get back to his office and make more money as quickly as possible and won't be willing to sit around 'till the end of the docket in order to shave three days off the jail sentence). And finally, the defendant can protect all of his rights - the right to keep quiet, the right to a fair trial, the right to an appeal, and the right on appeal to have a jury hear his case. (Assuming a misdemeanor charge - felonies start out with the right to a jury trial.) And going for the curtain is the only way the defendant can protect all his rights. Whether or not he goes for one or another option is all dependent on the strength of whatever case he's got, the charges against him, and the degree to which he is personally averse to risk. Again, not my decision, but his, and I don't twist anyone's arm, ever, to get an agreement to a plea offer. What's funny is that I get better plea offers than most "normal" lawyers because the prosecutors know I'm prepared, ready, willing, and able to go to trial. But then, I'm "odd".
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Yes. I suggest the use of my bill of sale form, available in pdf on my website.
    I sold a shotgun, over-under 20GA, to a friend here in Missouri and use your bill of sale. He asked me "What Virginia has to do with a gun sale in MO." "I have it on good authority that the fella at the bottom of the page knows exactly what he is talking about, especially #3. Sign the paper or no sale I said. Signed the paper he did.

    Never pass up a chance to take advantage of free, and sound, legal advice.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    --snipped--

    Never pass up a chance to take advantage of free, and sound, legal advice.
    Indeed, it may be worth a lot more than you paid for it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,735
    I love how attorneys like to mischaracterize statements just so they can make a specious argument.

    And some of those same attorneys like to make claims that whatever they spout on a forum should not be taken as legal advice, but merely personal opinion. Yet, in a flash tout their legal prowess by condemning those non-attorneys as neophytes because some choose not to partake in their (wink wink) personal opinion.

    Those same attorneys say that a man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. But in fact, some would argue that a lawyer representing his own interest is even more foolish than a lay person.

    So master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?

    I would say that the original poster got his answer and there is nothing else to discuss.

    All have a nice day......

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    ...
    So master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
    "Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart, with all thy mind, and with all thy strength." And the second is like unto it, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.
    (Funny how I don't really like the KJV, but when I quote off the top of my head, that's what comes out.)

    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    ...
    I would say that the original poster got his answer and there is nothing else to discuss.
    true.

    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    ...
    All have a nice day......
    Thank you; you have a nice day, too.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,155
    As a civilian engineer I worked with/for an O-6 ship's Captain that was finishing his PhD in some management field that commanded and instructed using aphorisms, key-words and tricky phrases in his jargon. "A wise man knows the right answer when he hears it!"
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    As a civilian engineer I worked with/for an O-6 ship's Captain that was finishing his PhD in some management field that commanded and instructed using aphorisms, key-words and tricky phrases in his jargon. "A wise man knows the right answer when he hears it!"
    I like that. Credentials add nothing to truth. And, like "the sign of Jonah": the Ninevites heard the truth even though it came from a macerated foreigner washed up on shore stinking of fish-guts; they recognized it for what it was; and they acted on it immediately, thus saving the city and them in it from destruction.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •