Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: Request for Documentation: Rest Areas

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Request for Documentation: Rest Areas

    Does anyone have any PROOF, either from a published source, or photographs, that the Governor's ban on carrying firearms in state buildings extends to the rest areas along the highways?

    Looking for PROOF of two parts: Does the ban cover the entire rest area property? Does the ban cover only the restrooms and visitor buildings?

    Thanks,

    TFred

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Oh, man! I didn't even think of the rest areas. Thanks for mentioning it, TFred.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Does anyone have any PROOF, either from a published source, or photographs, that the Governor's ban on carrying firearms in state buildings extends to the rest areas along the highways?

    Looking for PROOF of two parts: Does the ban cover the entire rest area property? Does the ban cover only the restrooms and visitor buildings?

    Thanks,

    TFred
    The existence and proof of such a ban are solely determined by the presence of signs declaring it. Executive orders are not laws.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    1- they are operated by vdot

    2- vdot is an executive branch agency

    Qed

    Stay safe
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Key word in my request: Documentation.

    With all due respect to Skid (and that is a lot!), you can't change minds or influence votes by throwing a bunch of words at a legislator with a "QED" at the end.

    In an absence of actual documented proof, this is starting to look like one of those restrictions that they can hold hover your head, without actually enforcing.

    I have no problem believing that the order technically extends to rest areas. But you can't use it as a selling point of how utterly ridiculous the notion is if they aren't actually enforcing it.

    So, with that additional background I'll ask again, ANYONE have any photos of signage anywhere in Virginia banning firearms from a state owned and operated rest area? Or any published source from an authority to that effect?

    Maybe someone just ought to call VDOT and ask... while recording the call, of course! That might be the easy route.

    Thanks.

    TFred

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    The real problem is that they could enforce it if there's some reason they want to "get" somebody. It criminalizes otherwise lawful behavior. And, btw, what about the state parks & campgrounds?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,612
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    The real problem is that they could enforce it if there's some reason they want to "get" somebody. It criminalizes otherwise lawful behavior. And, btw, what about the state parks & campgrounds?
    That rug would seem to have been jerked from beneath our feet also.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    For that matter, what about the entire state highway system?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    For that matter, what about the entire state highway system?
    That's an uncomfortable thought. VDOT maintains almost every road in Virginia.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Thanks to Delegate Mark Cole who made some inquiries into how this is being implemented.

    From a post on his Facebook page:

    "Technically, it does apply to rest areas, but the State Police said that they would only enforce it if signs prohibiting guns are posted. If they are posted and someone is found at a rest area with a gun, they will be told to leave. If they do not leave, they would be arrested for trespassing."

    Of course this is really a horrible way to run a government. "It's illegal, but only if we decide to tell you it's illegal." I hope this can be used to find enough Democrat Senators to override the certain veto of the State Entity preemption bill (HB 1096). Sadly, it did not pass the House with a veto-proof margin. (63-35 officially, but 64-34 if you read the comments - still not enough.)

    [ETA: There does not seem to be any realistic hope of being able to override the veto on this bill - even IF it passes the Senate.]

    Regarding the state highways, the Executive Order is published on the Governor's web page. The pertinent paragraphs read:

    VI. Banning Firearms in State Government Buildings

    We must take every precaution to protect our citizens and state employees from gun violence. We cannot wait until a tragedy occurs to decide to address it. Prevention requires us to address areas of concern before they are realized. Accordingly, I hereby declare that it is the policy of the Commonwealth that open carry of firearms shall be prohibited in offices occupied by executive branch agencies, unless held by law enforcement, authorized security, or military personnel authorized to carry firearms in accordance with their duties. Within 30 days of the date of this Executive Order, the Director of the Department of General Services (DGS) shall issue guidance prohibiting carrying weapons openly in offices occupied by executive branch agencies.

    I further order the Director of DGS, within 30 days of the date of this Executive Order, to propose regulations to ban the carrying of concealed weapons in offices occupied by executive branch agencies, unless held by law enforcement, authorized security, or military personnel authorized to carry firearms in accordance with their duties.
    I don't see anything indicating that the order would apply to the state highways.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 02-17-2016 at 10:48 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cincy area, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    890
    Yikes! We had to get some specific legislative reform to achieve legal carry at rest areas. And it took most of two years for ODOT to pull down the 'No guns' signs. Meanwhile, a new ODOT director was appointed during the middle of the legislative two year session, starting work on January 1st. By January 7th or so, those same rest areas had the new ODOT boss's name on the plaques inside the buildings, statewide. I went a little ballistic on the agency about the 'No guns' signs from that point forward.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373
    Wouldn't it be something if the Governor simply went along with the Constitution? Say, didn't he take an oath to uphold the Constitution?

    "It is sad that governments are chiefed by the double-tongues" -- TenBears in "Outlaw Josey Wales"
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Those of us actually in this state have to deal with this BS, while all the focus seems to be on the reciprocity issues for people who go somewhere else. Absolutely maddening.

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Those of us actually in this state have to deal with this BS, while all the focus seems to be on the reciprocity issues for people who go somewhere else. Absolutely maddening.
    Who are being encouraged to go somewhere else...and to drive around at this point. Driving through VA is becoming a problem...not unlike NJ it seems.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Who are being encouraged to go somewhere else...and to drive around at this point. Driving through VA is becoming a problem...not unlike NJ it seems.
    The issue with Virginia is nothing like New Jersey. If one wishes to carry openly they may do so quite easily with no permit of any sort needed. If one wishes to carry concealed they may obtain a Virginia non-resident CHP that must be issued by the State Police in 45 days at a charge of no more than $50 (provided one meets the basic criteria which requires very little compared to many states) or may carry on one of the permits that we continue honor.

    New Jersey does not allow gun owners to carry without a permit and even having most defensive guns with you in New Jersey will subject you to arrest and force you to deal with any exceptions recognized by the court should you be found out just having it. Further, New Jersey offers no non-resident permit that is obtainable by any common mortal nor do they offer reciprocity.

    The two are quite different, sir. To suggest otherwise is complete obfuscation of the details.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    The issue with Virginia is nothing like New Jersey. If one wishes to carry openly they may do so quite easily with no permit of any sort needed. If one wishes to carry concealed they may obtain a Virginia non-resident CHP that must be issued by the State Police in 45 days at a charge of no more than $50 (provided one meets the basic criteria which requires very little compared to many states) or may carry on one of the permits that we continue honor.

    New Jersey does not allow gun owners to carry without a permit and even having most defensive guns with you in New Jersey will subject you to arrest and force you to deal with any exceptions recognized by the court should you be found out just having it. Further, New Jersey offers no non-resident permit that is obtainable by any common mortal nor do they offer reciprocity.

    The two are quite different, sir. To suggest otherwise is complete obfuscation of the details.
    One small correction, Virginia non-Resident permits cost $100!



    TFred

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Blah.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Sorry for the late response but have been out of the loop for a few days.

    My point, which I think by now has been fully QED'd is that folks did not consider just how far and wide EO50 would stretch, even the narrowness of what is judicial or legislative branch was previously discussed, or at least hinted at.

    The documentation is is the words which I believe are words to the effect of "all executive branch ...." "All." Not "some" or "just these that I really wanted it to mean" or anything else.

    User needs to explain "disparate treatment" as how that violates Va and US constitutional rights, but anything less than "all" without specific exemptions written into EO50 is policing by whim and a violation of your right to equal government.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Sorry for the late response but have been out of the loop for a few days.

    My point, which I think by now has been fully QED'd is that folks did not consider just how far and wide EO50 would stretch, even the narrowness of what is judicial or legislative branch was previously discussed, or at least hinted at.
    Governor McAuliffe was pretty smart in picking the timeframe and approach to EO50 in some respects. He picked a time of year in which many people would not be vacationing in state parks and forests and thus would not be likely to notice the new "No Guns" signs until well after the legislative year was over and little could be done about it. On top of that, it's my understanding that many ABC Stores don't even post their "No Guns" signs in consipicuous locations so outsiders would never be the wiser unless they went in to browse and so far we haven't seen postings in rest areas either, although they are just as forbidden as the DMV. Combine that with Herring's CHP reciprocity withdrawal just before the legislative session to distract from the local issue and it got people hopping mad about potentially having to spend some money to get a different CHP to cover carrying in other states that aren't even their own despite the fact that that reciprocity can be readily addressed for most former reciprocal states with some extra money spent. As a result people were distracted from the bigger gun ban that could affect them in their neighborhood or while on their usual summer vacation spots.

    Now that the reciprocity issue is likely going to go down in flames due to the re-wording of the "compromise" agreement, McAuliffe and Herring have played gun owners like a fiddle and there ain't jack to be done about it.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 02-17-2016 at 06:57 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    The issue with Virginia is nothing like New Jersey. ... The two are quite different, sir. To suggest otherwise is complete obfuscation of the details.
    True on the NJ gun laws...yet, me being a outta-stater, these rules effectively make VA no different than NJ where I am concerned. Taking umbrage to the comparison falls flat based on the below.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Governor McAuliffe was pretty smart in picking the timeframe and approach to EO50 in some respects. He picked a time of year in which many people would not be vacationing in state parks and forests and thus would not be likely to notice the new "No Guns" signs until well after the legislative year was over and little could be done about it. On top of that, it's my understanding that many ABC Stores don't even post their "No Guns" signs in consipicuous locations so outsiders would never be the wiser unless they went in to browse and so far we haven't seen postings in rest areas either, although they are just as forbidden as the DMV. Combine that with Herring's CHP reciprocity withdrawal just before the legislative session to distract from the local issue and it got people hopping mad about potentially having to spend some money to get a different CHP to cover carrying in other states that aren't even their own despite the fact that that reciprocity can be readily addressed for most former reciprocal states with some extra money spent. As a result people were distracted from the bigger gun ban that could affect them in their neighborhood or while on their usual summer vacation spots.

    Now that the reciprocity issue is likely going to go down in flames due to the re-wording of the "compromise" agreement, McAuliffe and Herring have played gun owners like a fiddle and there ain't jack to be done about it.
    While felony charges are a stretch of logic in VA where that is the expected in NJ, the potential for being charged at all is not a stretch of logic. It is better to avoid a bad situation, avoid VA, than to try to work through a bad situation where the outcome is uncertain...in another state.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is better to avoid a bad situation, avoid VA, than to try to work through a bad situation where the outcome is uncertain...in another state.
    I wrote to the two Delegates who neglected to vote on the HB1096 "State Agency Pre-Emption" bill and encouraged them to vote in the override. I spelled out why this issue is so important for me and noted that even I as a Virginian will either be taking my vacation dollars to private places or going out of state to enjoy the state parks where I am welcome while carrying. If a Virginian chooses to do it, you can bet that outsider like you will too!

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I wrote to the two Delegates who neglected to vote on the HB1096 "State Agency Pre-Emption" bill and encouraged them to vote in the override. I spelled out why this issue is so important for me and noted that even I as a Virginian will either be taking my vacation dollars to private places or going out of state to enjoy the state parks where I am welcome while carrying. If a Virginian chooses to do it, you can bet that outsider like you will too!
    I like VA. Some of the most beautiful country in these United States...being a borderline yankee state that is. Some, or many, may disagree but the Eastern Shore is a very nice place to visit and not that difficult to leave the big city in the rear-view mirror. I'm partial to the ocean and virtually nobody around at the same time.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,870
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I like VA. Some of the most beautiful country in these United States...being a borderline yankee state that is. Some, or many, may disagree but the Eastern Shore is a very nice place to visit and not that difficult to leave the big city in the rear-view mirror. I'm partial to the ocean and virtually nobody around at the same time.
    come visit the nc shore...atlantic beach to be specific...sure hatteras has the press but atlantic beach is fun...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Been there many years ago, nice place. One of my kinfolk have a house up at Ocean Isle and there is no need for me to travel much past there.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,870
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Been there many years ago, nice place. One of my kinfolk have a house up at Ocean Isle and there is no need for me to travel much past there.
    well, next time ya'll are in the area, hollar and sit a spell...would be good to share a friendly smile...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •