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Request for Documentation: Rest Areas

TFred

Regular Member
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Oct 13, 2008
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7,750
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Does anyone have any PROOF, either from a published source, or photographs, that the Governor's ban on carrying firearms in state buildings extends to the rest areas along the highways?

Looking for PROOF of two parts: Does the ban cover the entire rest area property? Does the ban cover only the restrooms and visitor buildings?

Thanks,

TFred
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
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11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Does anyone have any PROOF, either from a published source, or photographs, that the Governor's ban on carrying firearms in state buildings extends to the rest areas along the highways?

Looking for PROOF of two parts: Does the ban cover the entire rest area property? Does the ban cover only the restrooms and visitor buildings?

Thanks,

TFred

The existence and proof of such a ban are solely determined by the presence of signs declaring it. Executive orders are not laws.
 

skidmark

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Valhalla
1- they are operated by vdot

2- vdot is an executive branch agency

Qed

Stay safe
 

TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Key word in my request: Documentation.

With all due respect to Skid (and that is a lot!), you can't change minds or influence votes by throwing a bunch of words at a legislator with a "QED" at the end.

In an absence of actual documented proof, this is starting to look like one of those restrictions that they can hold hover your head, without actually enforcing.

I have no problem believing that the order technically extends to rest areas. But you can't use it as a selling point of how utterly ridiculous the notion is if they aren't actually enforcing it.

So, with that additional background I'll ask again, ANYONE have any photos of signage anywhere in Virginia banning firearms from a state owned and operated rest area? Or any published source from an authority to that effect?

Maybe someone just ought to call VDOT and ask... while recording the call, of course! That might be the easy route. :)

Thanks.

TFred
 

user

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The real problem is that they could enforce it if there's some reason they want to "get" somebody. It criminalizes otherwise lawful behavior. And, btw, what about the state parks & campgrounds?
 

Grapeshot

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The real problem is that they could enforce it if there's some reason they want to "get" somebody. It criminalizes otherwise lawful behavior. And, btw, what about the state parks & campgrounds?

That rug would seem to have been jerked from beneath our feet also. :(
 

TFred

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Thanks to Delegate Mark Cole who made some inquiries into how this is being implemented.

From a post on his Facebook page:

"Technically, it does apply to rest areas, but the State Police said that they would only enforce it if signs prohibiting guns are posted. If they are posted and someone is found at a rest area with a gun, they will be told to leave. If they do not leave, they would be arrested for trespassing."

Of course this is really a horrible way to run a government. "It's illegal, but only if we decide to tell you it's illegal." I hope this can be used to find enough Democrat Senators to override the certain veto of the State Entity preemption bill (HB 1096). Sadly, it did not pass the House with a veto-proof margin. (63-35 officially, but 64-34 if you read the comments - still not enough.)

[ETA: There does not seem to be any realistic hope of being able to override the veto on this bill - even IF it passes the Senate.]

Regarding the state highways, the Executive Order is published on the Governor's web page. The pertinent paragraphs read:

VI. Banning Firearms in State Government Buildings

We must take every precaution to protect our citizens and state employees from gun violence. We cannot wait until a tragedy occurs to decide to address it. Prevention requires us to address areas of concern before they are realized. Accordingly, I hereby declare that it is the policy of the Commonwealth that open carry of firearms shall be prohibited in offices occupied by executive branch agencies, unless held by law enforcement, authorized security, or military personnel authorized to carry firearms in accordance with their duties. Within 30 days of the date of this Executive Order, the Director of the Department of General Services (DGS) shall issue guidance prohibiting carrying weapons openly in offices occupied by executive branch agencies.

I further order the Director of DGS, within 30 days of the date of this Executive Order, to propose regulations to ban the carrying of concealed weapons in offices occupied by executive branch agencies, unless held by law enforcement, authorized security, or military personnel authorized to carry firearms in accordance with their duties.

I don't see anything indicating that the order would apply to the state highways.

TFred
 
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Brian D.

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Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Yikes! We had to get some specific legislative reform to achieve legal carry at rest areas. And it took most of two years for ODOT to pull down the 'No guns' signs. Meanwhile, a new ODOT director was appointed during the middle of the legislative two year session, starting work on January 1st. By January 7th or so, those same rest areas had the new ODOT boss's name on the plaques inside the buildings, statewide. I went a little ballistic on the agency about the 'No guns' signs from that point forward.
 

user

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Wouldn't it be something if the Governor simply went along with the Constitution? Say, didn't he take an oath to uphold the Constitution?

"It is sad that governments are chiefed by the double-tongues" -- TenBears in "Outlaw Josey Wales"
 

jmelvin

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Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Those of us actually in this state have to deal with this BS, while all the focus seems to be on the reciprocity issues for people who go somewhere else. Absolutely maddening.
 

OC for ME

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Those of us actually in this state have to deal with this BS, while all the focus seems to be on the reciprocity issues for people who go somewhere else. Absolutely maddening.
Who are being encouraged to go somewhere else...and to drive around at this point. Driving through VA is becoming a problem...not unlike NJ it seems.
 

jmelvin

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Who are being encouraged to go somewhere else...and to drive around at this point. Driving through VA is becoming a problem...not unlike NJ it seems.

The issue with Virginia is nothing like New Jersey. If one wishes to carry openly they may do so quite easily with no permit of any sort needed. If one wishes to carry concealed they may obtain a Virginia non-resident CHP that must be issued by the State Police in 45 days at a charge of no more than $50 (provided one meets the basic criteria which requires very little compared to many states) or may carry on one of the permits that we continue honor.

New Jersey does not allow gun owners to carry without a permit and even having most defensive guns with you in New Jersey will subject you to arrest and force you to deal with any exceptions recognized by the court should you be found out just having it. Further, New Jersey offers no non-resident permit that is obtainable by any common mortal nor do they offer reciprocity.

The two are quite different, sir. To suggest otherwise is complete obfuscation of the details.
 

TFred

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The issue with Virginia is nothing like New Jersey. If one wishes to carry openly they may do so quite easily with no permit of any sort needed. If one wishes to carry concealed they may obtain a Virginia non-resident CHP that must be issued by the State Police in 45 days at a charge of no more than $50 (provided one meets the basic criteria which requires very little compared to many states) or may carry on one of the permits that we continue honor.

New Jersey does not allow gun owners to carry without a permit and even having most defensive guns with you in New Jersey will subject you to arrest and force you to deal with any exceptions recognized by the court should you be found out just having it. Further, New Jersey offers no non-resident permit that is obtainable by any common mortal nor do they offer reciprocity.

The two are quite different, sir. To suggest otherwise is complete obfuscation of the details.
One small correction, Virginia non-Resident permits cost $100!

:)

TFred
 

skidmark

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Sorry for the late response but have been out of the loop for a few days.

My point, which I think by now has been fully QED'd :lol: is that folks did not consider just how far and wide EO50 would stretch, even the narrowness of what is judicial or legislative branch was previously discussed, or at least hinted at.

The documentation is is the words which I believe are words to the effect of "all executive branch ...." "All." Not "some" or "just these that I really wanted it to mean" or anything else.

User needs to explain "disparate treatment" as how that violates Va and US constitutional rights, but anything less than "all" without specific exemptions written into EO50 is policing by whim and a violation of your right to equal government.

stay safe.
 

jmelvin

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Sorry for the late response but have been out of the loop for a few days.

My point, which I think by now has been fully QED'd :lol: is that folks did not consider just how far and wide EO50 would stretch, even the narrowness of what is judicial or legislative branch was previously discussed, or at least hinted at.

Governor McAuliffe was pretty smart in picking the timeframe and approach to EO50 in some respects. He picked a time of year in which many people would not be vacationing in state parks and forests and thus would not be likely to notice the new "No Guns" signs until well after the legislative year was over and little could be done about it. On top of that, it's my understanding that many ABC Stores don't even post their "No Guns" signs in consipicuous locations so outsiders would never be the wiser unless they went in to browse and so far we haven't seen postings in rest areas either, although they are just as forbidden as the DMV. Combine that with Herring's CHP reciprocity withdrawal just before the legislative session to distract from the local issue and it got people hopping mad about potentially having to spend some money to get a different CHP to cover carrying in other states that aren't even their own despite the fact that that reciprocity can be readily addressed for most former reciprocal states with some extra money spent. As a result people were distracted from the bigger gun ban that could affect them in their neighborhood or while on their usual summer vacation spots.

Now that the reciprocity issue is likely going to go down in flames due to the re-wording of the "compromise" agreement, McAuliffe and Herring have played gun owners like a fiddle and there ain't jack to be done about it.
 
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OC for ME

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The issue with Virginia is nothing like New Jersey. ... The two are quite different, sir. To suggest otherwise is complete obfuscation of the details.
True on the NJ gun laws...yet, me being a outta-stater, these rules effectively make VA no different than NJ where I am concerned. Taking umbrage to the comparison falls flat based on the below.
Governor McAuliffe was pretty smart in picking the timeframe and approach to EO50 in some respects. He picked a time of year in which many people would not be vacationing in state parks and forests and thus would not be likely to notice the new "No Guns" signs until well after the legislative year was over and little could be done about it. On top of that, it's my understanding that many ABC Stores don't even post their "No Guns" signs in consipicuous locations so outsiders would never be the wiser unless they went in to browse and so far we haven't seen postings in rest areas either, although they are just as forbidden as the DMV. Combine that with Herring's CHP reciprocity withdrawal just before the legislative session to distract from the local issue and it got people hopping mad about potentially having to spend some money to get a different CHP to cover carrying in other states that aren't even their own despite the fact that that reciprocity can be readily addressed for most former reciprocal states with some extra money spent. As a result people were distracted from the bigger gun ban that could affect them in their neighborhood or while on their usual summer vacation spots.

Now that the reciprocity issue is likely going to go down in flames due to the re-wording of the "compromise" agreement, McAuliffe and Herring have played gun owners like a fiddle and there ain't jack to be done about it.
While felony charges are a stretch of logic in VA where that is the expected in NJ, the potential for being charged at all is not a stretch of logic. It is better to avoid a bad situation, avoid VA, than to try to work through a bad situation where the outcome is uncertain...in another state.
 
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