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Thread: Houston Livestock Show Bans Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Houston Livestock Show Bans Carry

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    So Texas, what does the law say about this (old law, new 1 Jan law, and State Preemption)?

    “It’s our goal to promote a family-friendly atmosphere,” said Cowley. “We don’t think the private carry of handguns is conducive to that.”

    Though RodeoHouston is held on Harris County property, they retain exclusive use and control rights of the complex during the duration of the annual event.
    Public property, but private (tickets to enter) event... does preepmtion apply?
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    City owned, cannot post except they may be able to sell tickets as a "limited use permit to attend activities" where carry is prohibited. But that hasn't been tested in the courts. Which gets us to the zoo issue in Dallas...

    Why do people thing that licensed carriers aren't family friendly? Aren't we the law-abiding, follow-the-rules kind of folks?


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    In most states when a private operator contracts to rent the entire facility, they (the venue) gain the rights and priviledges the same as if they owned it for the duration. It becomes their castle, they make the rules.

    Does it work like that in Texas? I don't know, but hopefully I have pointed someone in the right direction to find out.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Just like a sporting event (rodeo is) - no guns allowed in NRG Stadium.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In most states when a private operator contracts to rent the entire facility, they (the venue) gain the rights and priviledges the same as if they owned it for the duration. It becomes their castle, they make the rules.

    Does it work like that in Texas? I don't know, but hopefully I have pointed someone in the right direction to find out.
    It does not. The law is pretty clear. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...E.30.htm#30.06

    (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It appears that the Show" is a private entity, not a governmental entity as is cited in the law.

    http://www.rodeohouston.com/home.aspx

    http://nrgpark.com/nrg-stadium
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It appears that the Show" is a private entity, not a governmental entity as is cited in the law.

    http://www.rodeohouston.com/home.aspx

    http://nrgpark.com/nrg-stadium
    It is on public property, however Matt points out that a professional sporting event is already a prohibited place. I certainly wish they would say that instead of the malarkey about being family friendly. If you're so family friendly, why serve so much booze?


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It appears that the Show" is a private entity, not a governmental entity as is cited in the law.

    http://www.rodeohouston.com/home.aspx

    http://nrgpark.com/nrg-stadium
    Which is exactly the point I made and why I raised the question.

    These things are a combination of real estate law and gun laws.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    This sounds like pretty much the same situation as the State Fair. Fair Park is owned by the city, but private company runs the fair, and didn't like the idea of CC. We won that battle.

    From their FAQ:
    …a gun? No, with one exception.
    A person holding a valid Texas Concealed Handgun License (or valid CHL from a reciprocating state) is permitted to enter onto State Fair property with his/her concealed handgun; provided, however, that CHL holders will not be permitted to carry their concealed handgun inside the Cotton Bowl Stadium, a facility defined under Texas Penal Code §46.035 as “the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place.” Note that the State Fair of Texas does not provide lockers for the storage or checking of weapons for CHL holders, so if you plan to attend a game or event in the Cotton Bowl, please secure your weapon at home or in your vehicle prior to entering the fairgrounds. We want the fair to be a fun and safe experience.

    …open carry? Yes.
    State Fair of Texas’ policy will be similar to our policy for Concealed Handgun License Holders. The State Fair of Texas leases property owned by the City of Dallas and does not fall into any of the exception categories (amusement park, etc.) that would allow us to prohibit the carrying of handguns, so we will be allowing “open carry” according to the Texas statutes. However, we will still prohibit handguns in the Cotton Bowl Stadium under the collegiate athletic event exception.
    (I'm not going to OC there - don't think it's prudent given how close-pressed the crowds can be - but I CC every time, and the guys with the metal detector wands at the gate only have about a 50% record of finding my G23...)

  10. #10
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Houston Livestock Show Bans Carry

    The Texans (McNair) and Houston Livestock Show jointly own and financed the stadium, as well as issued special purpose tax authority (Houston Sports Authority?) debt (backstopped by Harris county taxpayers...). Old Judge Hoffheinz pioneered that structure back in the 60s to build the Astrodome, and then the Convention Hall, and Astroworld...

    http://www.houstonsports.org

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    Last edited by HPmatt; 02-17-2016 at 10:14 PM.
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    The property is owned by Harris County according to the Harris Central Appraisal District website.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    It is on public property, however Matt points out that a professional sporting event is already a prohibited place. I certainly wish they would say that instead of the malarkey about being family friendly. If you're so family friendly, why serve so much booze?


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    Only the rodeo is a professional sporting event, and it is only in the big stadium for a certain period of time. The fair, livestock show, and concert are not professional sporting events.

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    This spurred me to look: Dallas AAC is owned by the City of Dallas. They should not be able to prohibit licensed carry for other than sporting and university events. Guess we need to press that issue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedDaemon View Post
    This sounds like pretty much the same situation as the State Fair. Fair Park is owned by the city, but private company runs the fair, and didn't like the idea of CC. We won that battle.

    From their FAQ:


    (I'm not going to OC there - don't think it's prudent given how close-pressed the crowds can be - but I CC every time, and the guys with the metal detector wands at the gate only have about a 50% record of finding my G23...)
    Because it's plastic? (Kidding)


    Why are they wanding if firearms are allowed? Do they ask to see your permit if they find it?


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by campfire View Post
    Because it's plastic? (Kidding)

    Why are they wanding if firearms are allowed? Do they ask to see your permit if they find it?

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    Give the propensity for Glocks to "just go off" on their owners I'd be inclined to wand for a Glock who is having a bad day.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood
    The property is owned by Harris County according to the Harris Central Appraisal District website.
    It also says so on the NRG website.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://nrgpark.com/hcscc
    The Harris County Sports & Convention Corporation (HCSCC), is a component of Harris County, Texas, which was created by the Commissioners Court of Harris County, Texas for the purposes of aiding and acting on behalf of Harris County in managing, operating, maintaining and developing the sports and entertainment complex located on County-owned property, known as NRG Park.
    Can you post a link to the HCAD site showing the NRG property? I could not find it for all I tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by jordanmills View Post
    Only the rodeo is a professional sporting event, and it is only in the big stadium for a certain period of time. The fair, livestock show, and concert are not professional sporting events.
    I heard someone else claim that the livestock show is part of a interscholastic event which, if true, would violate PC 46.035(b)(2) as well. While they may be competing for scholarships, etc. is that true?
    Last edited by sixer-sxt; 02-29-2016 at 03:55 PM.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixer-sxt View Post
    --snipped--

    I heard someone else claim that the livestock show is part of a interscholastic event which, if true, would violate PC 46.035(b)(2) as well. While they may be competing for scholarships, etc. is that true?
    Think that would be a real stretch and likely a false claim. What is more probable is that the prize for certain participants is a scholarship award.

    That condition is extremely unlikely to cause the event to be considered a school function anymore than having students in the audience would be.

    The litmus test would be is the event operated by/hosted by a school or group of schools.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-23-2016 at 07:25 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixer-sxt View Post
    I heard someone else claim that the livestock show is part of a interscholastic event which, if true, would violate PC 46.035(b)(2) as well. While they may be competing for scholarships, etc. is that true?
    That's like the zoo saying they're a school.

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