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Thread: Abolish cop unions

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Abolish cop unions

    http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/...ring/80478478/


    Why are cop unions so often against the right to bear arms? Here we see the irrationality and despotism and derangement of the political cop mind. Never mind they need only look to Florida or many other states that allow firearms without a permit inside vehicles. In much the same way, Florida cop unions bemoaned open carry when they could look to Alabama or 30 other states! It's scary that we have such puny minded people in positions of power. The scum rises to the top.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Follow the money. Cop unions do not want people that can defend themselves, never mind that police cannot, their is an illusion of safety. Responsible people who find they can take care of themselves may demand that we need less police, which means less dues.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Not only that, but he who holds the gun holds the power, and guns are only equalizers if the people can carry them too.

    Some segments of society don't like that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/...ring/80478478/


    Why are cop unions so often against the right to bear arms? Here we see the irrationality and despotism and derangement of the political cop mind. Never mind they need only look to Florida or many other states that allow firearms without a permit inside vehicles. In much the same way, Florida cop unions bemoaned open carry when they could look to Alabama or 30 other states! It's scary that we have such puny minded people in positions of power. The scum rises to the top.
    I would argue that police officer members of such unions should be fired on the spot. We have fundamental rationale on this point from the Founders. The only legimate* reason for government is to protect rights. Don't believe me? Check out what the Founders had to say:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,...(emphasis added by Citizen)
    Any government agent who argues against an enumerated right should be fired from his government position on the spot. We're not talking about recognizing a "new" right, like gay marriage or abortion. We're talking about long-standing, long-recognized, hard-won, expensively-won enumerated rights. Out on their ear, and they can thank us for not summarily imprisoning them for their treasonous disregard of their only legitimate* purpose.



    *Asterisk because I personally hold that not even a government that claims to be dedicated to protecting rights is legitimate insofar as it inflicts itself on peaceful individuals (and taxes them) without their express individual consent. But, hey. Government claims legitimacy--its their argument. Not mine. I have no problem using their own argument against them.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Why should the concerns of 67 voters legally allowed to lie to the public be held above those of the other registered voters of this state?
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Abolish all public sector unions. We should all understand that tax payer funds are funding these thug unions.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Abolish all public sector unions. We should all understand that tax payer funds are funding these thug unions.
    Good point.

    What is the old philosophical argument? The tyrannized pay for the swords used to threaten them?

    Abolishing public sector unions wouldn't stop paying for the swords, but it would be a baby step in that direction.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Public servants conspiring against their public masters.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Public servants conspiring against their public masters.
    Too true.

    Any further discussion needs to include the word perpetrate.
    Last edited by Citizen; 04-19-2016 at 11:18 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Qualified immunity needs to go to the trash bin. When ever a dept keeps an incompetent officer on the payroll they should suffer greatly, those superiors should be open to criminal charges as well as civil charges. The same goes for the union, they get a incompetent officer reinstated, or protect them from discipline for their behavior they need to be held both criminally, and civilly responsible.

    In the case of Darren Wilson he was clearly incompetent, yet his behavior was encouraged until he endangered officers, and caused massive unrest. Being justified is no excuse for incompetence, it is legal to be stupid. But the decision to keep an idiot on the streets with a gun, and badge is criminal.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Darren Wilson was a typical cop, that can be found all across the country.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/10/the-cop
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    qualified immunity protecting nice LEs, DAs, Judicial officers, ad nausea needs to be evaluated and everyone who is incompetent needs to be removed from office. if their actions were egregous, then punitive damages as well as incarceration is warranted.

    ipse
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Darren Wilson was a typical cop, that can be found all across the country.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/10/the-cop
    NO! Most cops are not as stupid as he is, not surprising he has been turned down for employment.

    From his own GJ testimony, he saw that Brown was oversize, not alone, was verbally profane, and combative, fit the description of an armed robber. Yet this mental giant drove right up to him, and rolled down his window. He is lucky to be alive, as well as responding officers, but this idiot should never work for the public again.

    If being stupid is a hero, then every idiot would qualify.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NO! Most cops are not as stupid as he is, not surprising he has been turned down for employment.

    From his own GJ testimony, he saw that Brown was oversize, not alone, was verbally profane, and combative, fit the description of an armed robber. Yet this mental giant drove right up to him, and rolled down his window. He is lucky to be alive, as well as responding officers, but this idiot should never work for the public again.

    If being stupid is a hero, then every idiot would qualify.
    I'll clarify. Wilson did what many cops do (before he learned of Brown being the suspected c-store robber), yell at kids walking down the middle of the street. Kids have been walking on/playing in residential streets since the invention of residential streets. Cops yelled at my kids and my neighbor's kids for playing in our cul-de-sac. Kids were back in the street after he left.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Abolish all public sector unions. We should all understand that tax payer funds are funding these thug unions.
    Couldn't agree more.
    Mack The Knife sends.

    "Laech cach fer co bas" (Gaelic- "Everyman a warrior until death")
    "Bas no beatha" (McLean war cry- "Death or life")

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Not only should the cop unions be abolished, but the legislators of this great state (Yes, I am a native Alabamian) need to review the history of the present law which requires a permit. The original law was, as I understand it, repealed. But, in 1956, at the heart of the Montgomery Bus Boycott, the law was reinstituted. Why? Because the black community had started carpooling to keep from taking the buses.

    Cue those three cousins, Ku, Klux, and Klan, starting to threaten and attempt to intimidate these folks. The black folks rightfully proceeded to arm themselves for protection. Hence the law. Guess who the sheriffs at that time would not issue a pistol permit to. I have heard a sheriff in one county tell a very well-respected black man that it would be a cold day in Hell before he would give a (racial epithet deleted) a permit.

    In the present day, the ASA, Alabama Sheriffs' Association, is driven more by the sheriffs' fear that they will lose the permit money than any other concern.
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    I would go further and eliminate all police. Our country did not always have policemen and we were fine.

  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    ... In the present day, the ASA, Alabama Sheriffs' Association, is driven more by the sheriffs' fear that they will lose the permit money than any other concern.
    They, ASA members, are high ranking minions of the CC Industrial Complex.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  19. #19
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    They, ASA members, are high ranking minions of the CC Industrial Complex.
    More that they are struggling desperately to gain and retain as much control over the citizenry they are supposed to serve as they possibly can. Keep in mind that these sheriffs are, first and foremost, politicians rather than law enforcement professionals.

    There are many stories I could tell that would demonstrate that fact; to include stories that show both the past and present bigotry of some, thankfully not all, of those same politicians. I will, however, spare the delicate sensibilities of the OCDO membership.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Follow the money. Cop unions do not want people that can defend themselves, never mind that police cannot, their is an illusion of safety. Responsible people who find they can take care of themselves may demand that we need less police, which means less dues.
    Simply put, it's good for business.

    The ASA is an entity that should not exist in the capacity that it does. Through some hook, crook, and legislative act, the dues of the members of ASA may be paid using public monies from the sheriff's office funds the local county commission, or another source spelled out in the Title 45: Local Laws. However, ASA acts as a lobbyist or retains a lobbyist, and frequently opposes anything to do with changes to pistol licenses or permits (an all important source of revenue for sheriffs) as well as other measures in a decidedly anti-gun, anti-citizen manner. Properly applied, since the permits are effectively issued by the state, the state should be printing them, managing the information database associated with them, and the funds for said permits should flow into the General Fund of the state treasury. If the sheriffs require more money than they are apportioned from the various funds and sources of the state, they should talk to the legislators to see about getting apportioned more money or apply for and receive grants or donations.

    The essential bias of the ASA and FOP are that there are three classes of people: The people who hire LEOs or have money, power, or influence that can get things for LEOs, the LEOs, and people who aren't LEOs. Never forget that the people in the first set are in the third set. For further reference, look at the recent Bentley scandal, how Spencer Collier fit into the debacle, and how he -- a manager who was once an APOST-certified front-line officer -- effectively has done no "police work" since he was promoted to management. Yet, he carries a badge and a gun, and will likely keep them in retirement.

    This follows remarkably closely to the feudal era, where "The Knights Of The Roundtable" enjoyed a right to bail and to be released into the comfort of six of their peers following an arrest. They didn't have means, but they had physical strength, armor, and arms.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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