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Thread: Church Carry - St. Charles, MO

  1. #1
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    Church Carry - St. Charles, MO

    Today at my church in the Saint Charles area, there was a guest spotted open carrying his firearm. I'm proud to say there wasn't panic - no one called the cops - most didn't even notice. I wish I would have had the opportunity to say hi and thank him. If that individual happens to be on the forums (if you were carrying in a church in the St. Charles area) send me an IM. I'd love to meet if you ever stop by our church again.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    RSMo 571.030. 1. - Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties - A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or

    8. Unlawful use of weapons is a class D felony unless committed pursuant to subdivision (6), (7), or (8) of subsection 1 of this section, in which cases it is a class B misdemeanor, or subdivision (5) or (10) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class A misdemeanor if the firearm is unloaded and a class D felony if the firearm is loaded, or subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class B felony, except that if the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section results in injury or death to another person, it is a class A felony.
    RSMo 571.107. 1. - Permit does not authorize concealed firearms, where--penalty for violation.

    1. ... No concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, valid concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:

    (14) Any church or other place of religious worship without the consent of the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

    2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, or a concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. ...
    Risky behavior. Should not be illegal but it is, the OCer can be reported to LE and be arrested regardless of any agreement between he and the church.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Risky behavior. Should not be illegal but it is, the OCer can be reported to LE and be arrested regardless of any agreement between he and the church.
    true, but on the same token, a bunch of people in a church, unarmed.... fish in a barrel comes to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Risky behavior. Should not be illegal but it is, the OCer can be reported to LE and be arrested regardless of any agreement between he and the church.
    Please explain to me how it would be "illegal" IF he had already received consent from the church. Again IF being the key word.

    Also, why would he be arrested IF he had a valid CCW? Wouldn't it only be "trespassing"... only if he refused to leave?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    true, but on the same token, a bunch of people in a church, unarmed.... fish in a barrel comes to mind.
    guess they believe they will be provided for...HUH!

    tho didn't work so well in Charleston SC or the Confederate flag either

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmhenry View Post
    Please explain to me how it would be "illegal" IF he had already received consent from the church. Again IF being the key word.

    Also, why would he be arrested IF he had a valid CCW? Wouldn't it only be "trespassing"... only if he refused to leave?
    Church carry is illegal by Missouri statute RSMo 571.030.1(8)
    Last edited by Nightmare; 02-29-2016 at 09:27 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmhenry View Post
    Please explain to me how it would be "illegal" IF he had already received consent from the church. Again IF being the key word.

    Also, why would he be arrested IF he had a valid CCW? Wouldn't it only be "trespassing"... only if he refused to leave?
    yo, bmhenry...you can carry in church...you have now received consent....and an added bonus...you have it in writing from me, so you are good to go.

    received consent from the church....lol the pastor...he is but the manager of the flock so to speak...church trustees...yepper that's where it's got to come from...oh, of course, in writing carried with the individual each and ever time he is on the premises....

    did you see an exception to OC4ME's quote of statute section? let's both look at what was posted ~

    quote: 8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship....
    ...in which cases it is a class B misdemeanor.... unquote.

    didn't see the words you would be prosecuted for trespass...therefore it has it's own penalty as a flat out class B misdemeanor...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    A church cannot give you a exception to the plain reading of RSMo 571.030.1(8).

    RSMo 571.030.4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit ...
    Technically, OCing on a permit does not require the church's permission. OC into a church without a CC permit and you have committed a B misdemeanor. CCing on a permit requires permission.

    Cops should not arrest you if you are OCing on a permit into the church. If a cop does arrest you a prosecutor cannot prosecute you.

    Trespassing applies in both instances.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Risky? Not with a CCW permit.

    RSMo 571.030.4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit ...
    So with a CCW permit, there is no offense committed under 571.

    While 571.107.1 (14) does specificy that to be "authorized" one must have consent of the minister, you need to include Subsection 2:

    571.107.2
    Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, or a concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises.
    So the only "risk" involved is 1) being asked to leave or 2) LEO's who don't know the law and the hassle you will incur getting charges dropped.
    Last edited by STLDaniel; 02-29-2016 at 06:36 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLDaniel View Post
    ... So the only "risk" involved is 1) being asked to leave or 2) LEO's who don't know the law and the hassle you will incur getting charges dropped.
    Pretty much.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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