Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Justice Thomas Breaks Silence: Tough Questions About Gun Rights

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Justice Thomas Breaks Silence: Tough Questions About Gun Rights

    ...The comments from Thomas were directed at a government attorney, Ilana H. Eisenstein in a case called Voisine v. United States. The case concerns whether a prior domestic assault conviction based on reckless conduct qualifies as a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence that would block the plaintiffs from possessing a firearm.
    "Everyone leaned in disbelieving," said Slate's Dahlia Lithwick who was in the Court room. "The colloquy went back and forth several times with Thomas pressing the Assistant Solicitor General," Lithwick said.
    "This is a misdemeanor violation," Thomas said at one point to Eisenstein. "It suspends a constitutional right—Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?" he asked...

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/29/politi...reak-question/
    NOTE: I do not consume CNN. The local news station website I check dropped the story; couldn't even find it with their search feature. So, I had to google for it. The link above is the first return I got.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  2. #2
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    it will be truly interesting to see how he votes in the DV case on a misdemeanor eliminating a constitutional right...

    (unintended out come could cause states to make DV a felony...sigh)

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    Thomas may be poised to become the court's new conservative voice. He's probably been quietly learning Scalia's ways and now has to take the baton. However, his comment about the Second Amendment was a little troubling:"...possession of a gun, which, at least as of now, is still a constitutional right..."


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Thomas has always been a strong 2A supporter as it was written. He has expressed these sentiments before.

    NRA and other so called 2A dropped the ball many times while Scalia was still with us. If a clear right to carry without permission had been established it would have been hard to overturn. These groups squandered the court for their own selfish purposes.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    +1
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    He also was the lone dissent in Raich.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Thomas has always been a strong 2A supporter as it was written. He has expressed these sentiments before.

    NRA and other so called 2A dropped the ball many times while Scalia was still with us. If a clear right to carry without permission had been established it would have been hard to overturn. These groups squandered the court for their own selfish purposes.
    Well said. When any body of judges sworn to uphold the Constitution rules instead solely and repeatedly down party lines, the system has failed. Integrity is missing.

    While a pro-2A like Thomas is indeed welcome, the system remains broken. The question is, "How can we fix the system?" There must be a way to restore integrity, so that the justices are voting along Constitutional lines, and not those of a political party.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154

    SCOTUSblog; Everything you read about the Supreme Court is wrong.

    Tom Goldstein: "Ideologues on both the left and right, as well as the public generally, frequently repeat their own received wisdoms that the Supreme Court is an easily categorized institution and that the Justices are committedly "liberal"¯ or "conservative,"¯ with Justice Kennedy as the lone swing vote. Liberals and conservatives also consistently accuse their opposites of being "activists,"¯ a point vividly on display in the Senators' opening statements in the Kagan confirmation hearings. The just-completed Term proves, I think, that those generalizations are often misleading or outright wrong. [much more]"

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/06/ev...ourt-is-wrong/

    Also The Oxford Companion to SCOTUS article 'Judicial Activism'

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0195176618

    Briefly reviewing common writings of, on, and about SCOTUS, I found no prohibition of judicial activism or commitment to avoid it.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-11-2016 at 07:43 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Tom Goldstein: "Ideologues on both the left and right, as well as the public generally, frequently repeat their own received wisdoms that the Supreme Court is an easily categorized institution and that the Justices are committedly "liberal"¯ or "conservative,"¯ with Justice Kennedy as the lone swing vote. Liberals and conservatives also consistently accuse their opposites of being "activists,"¯ a point vividly on display in the Senators' opening statements in the Kagan confirmation hearings. The just-completed Term proves, I think, that those generalizations are often misleading or outright wrong. [much more]"

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/06/ev...ourt-is-wrong/

    Also The Oxford Companion to SCOTUS article 'Judicial Activism'

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0195176618

    Briefly reviewing common writings of, on, and about SCOTUS, I found no prohibition of judicial activism or commitment to avoid it.
    Just commenting generally, Nightmare. Not contradicting.

    ----------------------------

    Liberal vs conservative? Judicial activism vs faithfulness to the constitution?

    Phhhhhht!

    History proves one thing for sure about SCOTUS. While they do sometimes vote to protect rights, it has been a net loss across time. Far more small and large decisions that confirmed some expansion of government, or passed up an opportunity to hold the line.

    Kenneth Royce, in his book Hologram of Liberty asks (paraphrase) how many times you have to lose at a game before you start to wonder if the rules are rigged against you?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    History proves one thing for sure about SCOTUS. While they do sometimes vote to protect rights, it has been a net loss across time. Far more small and large decisions that confirmed some expansion of government, or passed up an opportunity to hold the line.
    Really? Seems like a rather narrow minded view.

    I wonder if blacks, American Indians, women, inter-racial couples, homosexuals, pornographers, abortionists, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Irish, and other previously unpopular minorities would agree with such a myopic view of the progress of this nation.

    In fact, can one point to any society in the secular history of the world where unpopular minorities (and the powerful majority) enjoyed greater protection of their rights than are enjoyed in this nation today?

    A direct answer would be fine.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 03-12-2016 at 12:46 AM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Well said. When any body of judges sworn to uphold the Constitution rules instead solely and repeatedly down party lines, the system has failed. Integrity is missing.

    While a pro-2A like Thomas is indeed welcome, the system remains broken. The question is, "How can we fix the system?" There must be a way to restore integrity, so that the justices are voting along Constitutional lines, and not those of a political party.
    The system is working as it should ... maybe you don't understand the system?

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Just commenting generally, Nightmare. Not contradicting.

    ----------------------------

    Liberal vs conservative? Judicial activism vs faithfulness to the constitution?

    Phhhhhht!

    History proves one thing for sure about SCOTUS. While they do sometimes vote to protect rights, it has been a net loss across time. Far more small and large decisions that confirmed some expansion of government, or passed up an opportunity to hold the line.

    Kenneth Royce, in his book Hologram of Liberty asks (paraphrase) how many times you have to lose at a game before you start to wonder if the rules are rigged against you?
    Some folks routinely ignore the facts before their very eyes. Terry v. Ohio is the coffin that our 4A was placed into. Kelo is the coffin that our private property right was placed into. Obamacare grants to the feds the ability to tax us for our mere existence.

    Three decisions that pretty much excised the life, liberty, property from constitutional discussions.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    [ ... ] Three decisions that pretty much excised the life, liberty, property from constitutional discussions.
    McBeth would have US believe that trespass is gone too.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    In fact, can one point to any society in the secular history of the world where unpopular minorities (and the powerful majority) enjoyed greater protection of their rights than are enjoyed in this nation today?
    A direct answer would be fine.[/quote]

    Several European countries come to mind, Germany and the UK, in particular. By comparison, the US is playing catch-up, although I'm not sure catching up to nations going over cliffs is a smart thing to do.

    How was that for directness?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Some folks routinely ignore the facts before their very eyes. Terry v. Ohio is the coffin that our 4A was placed into. Kelo is the coffin that our private property right was placed into. Obamacare grants to the feds the ability to tax us for our mere existence.

    Three decisions that pretty much excised the life, liberty, property from constitutional discussions.
    Please cite the LAW that confirms your statement as fact.

    I looked into that very law and it does not apply the way most people, whom of which have not actually read the law, believe that it does.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 03-14-2016 at 01:40 PM. Reason: K
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  16. #16
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Several European countries come to mind, Germany and the UK, in particular. By comparison, the US is playing catch-up, although I'm not sure catching up to nations going over cliffs is a smart thing to do.
    And how are the rights to privacy, RKBA, freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, rights against self-incrimination, and general economic freedom (ie tax rates) for minorities (or anyone else) doing in those nations compared to the US?

    Granted, some other nations have done a better job of providing equality between their majorities and their unpopular minorities. But I'd argue that being equal unfree is not nearly as desirable as increasing the freedom of minorities while also increasing freedoms for everyone in several other key areas.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Please cite the LAW that confirms your statement as fact.

    I looked into that very law and it does not apply the way most people, whom of which have not actually read the law, believe that it does.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    If it is your choice to not buy health insurance, don't pay the Obamacare tax. It is a free country after all.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    quote: The ACA’s individual mandate requires everyone in the U.S. to have health insurance, unless they qualify for an exemption. If you didn’t qualify, and went without “essential health benefits” for more than three months in 2015, you’ll have to pay a penalty on your coming tax return.

    The penalty’s cost is calculated in one of two ways: You’ll either pay a percentage of your household taxable income — which you’ll figure on your annual tax return — or a flat rate, whichever is greater. Your tax return will also help you determine your penalty amount.


    Each year, the penalty will increase to keep pace with inflation and encourage people to buy coverage.


    For tax year 2015, the ACA penalty is 2% of your household’s annual taxable income, or $325 per adult and $162.50 per child, to a maximum of $975.


    For tax year 2016, the penalty will rise to 2.5% of your income, or $695 per adult and $347.50 per child, to a maximum of $2,085.


    For tax year 2017 and beyond, the percentage option will remain at 2.5%, but the flat fee will be adjusted for inflation.

    unquote. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/heal...lth-insurance/

    your welcome freedom...do wish you would pay your internet provider tho...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree (Indiana County), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,155
    But the only way the Feds can collect the Obamacare penalty is from your federal income tax refund. Per the statute, no other collection mechanism exists. So, if the IRS doesn't owe you a refund, but you still owe the Obamacare penalty, that's it.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    But the only way the Feds can collect the Obamacare penalty is from your federal income tax refund. Per the statute, no other collection mechanism exists. So, if the IRS doesn't owe you a refund, but you still owe the Obamacare penalty, that's it.
    Well, yes.

    However! It takes only an act of Congress to say that you owe for all the penalties/taxes you didn't pay--plus interest and penalties, thank you.

    That is to say, the statute might today include no mechanism beyond taking it out of your refund. But, that certainly does not mean congress cannot legislate tomorrow a new statute saying you owe for everything you didn't pay in previous years. Meaning, you already "owe" according to the statute. How and whether they collect is a different question. Under the law, you "owe" whether collected or not. According to them, you "owe". The passage of time doesn't erase your "debt". One, two, three years doesn't erase the fact (in their mind) that you "owed" it.

    All it takes is another statute authorizing more stringent collection measures.

    Nothing at all prevents congress from passing, in 2018, a law saying non-payers owe interest and penalties on whatever Obamacare tax was still unpaid 2015-2017 after the refund was seized. Nevermind, the amount "owed" before "interest and penalties".

    I am not advocating paying. I am saying to look further before deciding whether to pay and how much.
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-15-2016 at 09:03 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    But the only way the Feds can collect the Obamacare penalty is from your federal income tax refund. Per the statute, no other collection mechanism exists. So, if the IRS doesn't owe you a refund, but you still owe the Obamacare penalty, that's it.
    Obamacare only applies to those who are subject to Subtile A taxes.

    The average human dwelling in the 50 states is not subject to Subtitle A taxes.

    So while citizens can, under very limited circumstances, be subjected to Subtitle A taxes it is rare.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  22. #22
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    freedom, you have been given two cites...opps sorry...

    http://www.hrblock.com/aca-tax-impac...xemptions.html

    with the last showing how the ACA tax wouldn't apply...

    all you have done is say you looked into the law and never produced a single reference cite...now you are ranting about subtitle A 26 USC normal taxation statutes...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    freedom, you have been given two cites...opps sorry...

    http://www.hrblock.com/aca-tax-impac...xemptions.html

    with the last showing how the ACA tax wouldn't apply...

    all you have done is say you looked into the law and never produced a single reference cite...now you are ranting about subtitle A 26 USC normal taxation statutes...

    ipse
    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...8-sec5000A.htm
    (g) Administration and procedure
    (1) In general

    The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.
    Socialist security is voluntary (subtitle C) hence no penalties listed for not paying into it. Subtitle A is on the SOURCE of income (citizens abroad and foreigners at home).

    You have not been able to cite any law proving that the Obummer care applies to the citizens of the 50 states.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  24. #24
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    So now we have destroyed the good, but not perfect - Health Insurance System - covering 200+ million people, to cover less than 9 million?

    25% Dumped Their ObamaCare Plans Last Year, White House Admits
    http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...-house-admits/

    Don't know how this relates to Justice Thomas and 2A, but Hope and Change have certainly occurred.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    It was the courts that historically denied rights to groups of minorities who behind the curve then "grant" them.

    This does not count as the courts being historically protective of rights.

    Citizen is absolutely correct, the courts have historically eroded rights.

    Even when they claim to rule for rights, instead of making it equal under law they enforce a form of inequality by forcing people to surrender person property rights so that others may have some........its like raping for chastity....doesn't work that way homebre.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •