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Thread: SB608 Phishing License = VA Gun Registry?

  1. #1
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    SB608 Phishing License = VA Gun Registry?

    From VCDL Legislative Update:
    So this disturbs me:
    Why was the phrase,
    B. The Superintendent shall establish and maintain a procedure within the Department of State Police a Criminal Firearms Clearinghouse as a central repository of to obtain information regarding all firearms seized, forfeited, found, or otherwise coming into the possession of any state or local law-enforcement agency of the Commonwealth
    xxx>>which are believed to have been used in the commission of a crime<<xxx.
    deleted from the law??!!
    So let the phishing expeditions begin, as Enforcement seeks to come into possession of as many firearms as possible, be it ever so briefly or auspiciously so that they can run the numbers on (and catalog?) VA's inventory of private firearms??!!

    I can't watch these children 24/7 of my life!
    This got shot down last year, and here it is passed this year?! <smh>
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...ul+SB608ER+hil

    Traffic stop:
    "I have to disarm you for my safety"
    ~ well, while I've got the gun, I might as well run the serial #.
    ~ well, since I have their ID, and I have their firearm's serial #, we might as well make a record of it.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-04-2016 at 08:57 AM. Reason: rule #19
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "It's NOT a registration! The law doesn't allow a registration nor does it provide any funds for establishing or maintaining one."

    "It's just that we archive a record of everything we encounter in this searchable database; y'know dates, times, addresses, people's names, numbers, etc, etc, etc. Just because we could find everything we recorded for the last ten years doesn't make it a 'registration.... per se, that is."

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    "It's NOT a registration! The law doesn't allow a registration nor does it provide any funds for establishing or maintaining one."

    "It's just that we archive a record of everything we encounter in this searchable database; y'know dates, times, addresses, people's names, numbers, etc, etc, etc. Just because we could find everything we recorded for the last ten years doesn't make it a 'registration.... per se, that is."
    It is not registration - it is just a documented, detailed, annotated list directed to be maintained by an agency of the executive branch.

    They keep records that they deny exist. Shadow, smoke, and mirrors at work.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance. Indolence will steal your rights in a flash.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance. Indolence will steal your rights in a flash.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Can anyone find the code where gun registration is illegal for state and federal? I have looked and can't locate it.

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    Last edited by All American Nightmare; 02-04-2017 at 04:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    it IS registration.

    They can deny it until their faces turn blue, but if they were made of wood their noses would be growing
    JFT 96

    I'm sorry, did I offend you with my opinion?
    You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

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    The current law prevents it I just can't find the actual state and federal code.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    as I remember it

    The Federal statute prevents the Feds and the Feds only. Otherwise California and New York state registrations would already be deemed illegal. I hope there is a Virginia restriction, but do not recall bumping into one. As computer technology expands, the costs of keeping such a database diminish. Hide a few expenditures here or there and it is financed. If Virginia actually had an Attorney General this could be pursued.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    The Federal statute prevents the Feds and the Feds only. Otherwise California and New York state registrations would already be deemed illegal. I hope there is a Virginia restriction, but do not recall bumping into one. As computer technology expands, the costs of keeping such a database diminish. Hide a few expenditures here or there and it is financed. If Virginia actually had an Attorney General this could be pursued.
    I have looked for that code and can't find it did you locate it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristCrusader View Post
    From VCDL Legislative Update:
    So this disturbs me:
    Why was the phrase,

    deleted from the law??!!
    So let the phishing expeditions begin, as Enforcement seeks to come into possession of as many firearms as possible, be it ever so briefly or auspiciously so that they can run the numbers on (and catalog?) VA's inventory of private firearms??!!

    I can't watch these children 24/7 of my life!
    This got shot down last year, and here it is passed this year?! <smh>
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...ul+SB608ER+hil

    Traffic stop:
    "I have to disarm you for my safety"
    ~ well, while I've got the gun, I might as well run the serial #.
    ~ well, since I have their ID, and I have their firearm's serial #, we might as well make a record of it.
    Certainly does make the case for making your own with an 80% lower and no serial number! That should be an interesting turn of the worm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanns40 View Post
    Certainly does make the case for making your own with an 80% lower and no serial number! That should be an interesting turn of the worm.

    SSSHHHHHHHHHH!! Speak not of those secrets.

    Nemo

  13. #13
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All American Nightmare View Post
    Can anyone find the code where gun registration is illegal for state and federal? I have looked and can't locate it.
    You're looking for the Firearm Owners Protection Act.

    See pertinent excerpt below. It DOES outlaw any NEW registrations by states or local jurisdictions. I suppose the existing ones are grandfathered.

    TFred

    No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    As for me, I put electrical tape over the serial number of my trusty Sig. If mr. LEO wants my serial number, let him get a warrant or violate the 4th Amendment and take off the tape.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    As for me, I put electrical tape over the serial number of my trusty Sig. If mr. LEO wants my serial number, let him get a warrant or violate the 4th Amendment and take off the tape.
    If Officer Friendly were to remove the electrical tape, wad it into a neat little ball and toss it on the ground, do you think you'd have a reasonable basis for a civil lawsuit?
    What would be the 'preponderance of evidence' that you would offer?

  16. #16
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    If Officer Friendly were to remove the electrical tape, wad it into a neat little ball and toss it on the ground, do you think you'd have a reasonable basis for a civil lawsuit?
    What would be the 'preponderance of evidence' that you would offer?

    Yes, of course. I am an old school open carry advocate.

    1) I always have my phone's video recorder on. First thing every morning is filming myself holstering up. This always shows the tape on the gun.

    2) My instruction to the officer if he reaches to take it from me "It is a SIG 229 DAO, there is no safety. Be careful. The serial number is private and concealed. If you want the serial number, get a warrant." This is of course also recorded by my phone.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  17. #17
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Yes, of course. I am an old school open carry advocate.
    1) I always have my phone's video recorder on. First thing every morning is filming myself holstering up. This always shows the tape on the gun.
    2) My instruction to the officer if he reaches to take it from me "It is a SIG 229 DAO, there is no safety. Be careful. The serial number is private and concealed. If you want the serial number, get a warrant." This is of course also recorded by my phone.
    1) Good to know because there is no way something like that could be faked or that the tape wasn't removed 5 seconds after the video ended.
    2) "Yes, your honor, the plaintiff did say that but when I took his firearm for safekeeping there was no electrical tape on it and the serial number was in plain view. No search was made. Does the plaintiff have any physical evidence to offer?"

    First, It's your word against that of someone else (I'm already discounting Officer Friendly's word as not being worth more than a 'common civilian's) and current jurisprudence is that must view the evidence in a light most favorable to the non-moving party. In this case there wouldn't be any physical evidence concurrent (at the same time as) the alleged unconstitutional act. You could make the video that morning or an hour before the firearm was taken for safekeeping and it wouldn't be evidence that the tape was there at the time or that you didn't remove the tape 5 minutes after making the video.

    Second, the court is (if you prevail) going to look at restitution, in 'making you whole again', restoring to you that which was taken.... and your claimed losses would be what; a strip of common electrical tape an inch long?


    Please don't take me wrongly;
    I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to keep the serial number private, just that there are more ways of keeping it secure than an easily removed bit of common electrical tape that leaves no evidence of removal.
    Spend some coin and get some real tamper-resistant tape or decals, something that will leave physical evidence behind of Officer Friendly's unconstitutional act. I recommend Safariland or NameThatComputer.Com I might have some experience with the latter company.

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