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Thread: Are we going to rock the boat, or just cry in our beer?

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Are we going to rock the boat, or just cry in our beer?



    Noble as their efforts may be, FloridaCarry.org needs to realize that being timid and "civilized" isn't going to make this happen. We have to take the fight to the enemy. If the days of the Blue RINO are to be numbered, it's up to us to number them.

    I've never "hunted" anything that walking in the door and laid down on my dinner plate and killed itself. If you want to make an omelette, you'll have to break some eggs.

    No matter how you defy the status quo, it will always be labeled as "I agree, but that's not how I think you should do it... I would have done it differently." Followed by not a single suggestion of what this so-called "better way" is.

    If the talk of antique black powder revolvers serving as legal protest tender in Floriduh as it did in Texas, we need to get behind it.

    We need a quick pamphlet with a simple FAQ debunking the stupid questions, stupid opinions, outright lies, and prejudiced slander.

    I've already been OCing a neon green practice 1911. But a revolver from 185X would be better. They're only $200. You can make your own much cleaner burning powder for super cheap.

    The gun Floriduh forces me to carry in order to avoid the non-existent legislated-from-the-bench printing law (which is a felony charge) is only 6+1 of .380acp. A .44cal cap and ball black powder revolver is a step up from that... So it'd be my new everyday carry in that regard alone.

    Imagine the irony of the anti's being the ones who caused us to be walking about with actual "wild west" guns, lols! And, amazingly, in their deranged eyes, not shooting up the place...

    But, knowing the FDLE's SOP of "kill everyone and fix it in the report," it'd be foolish to do this all by my lonesome.

    So, does anyone in FL have the guts to actually do something for their rights, instead of sit around and talk about it?

    Could we get at least a gesture of solidarity from FloridaCarry.org's legal team on whether or not the Antique Gun carry is a real thing?

    My CnC machine wants to make a stainless version of this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/19...er-blue-barrel Why? So that when I get caught in the rain on my bike, it's all good...

    You have to rock the boat. That's how it is. That's the very definition of any change. The status-quo won't like it no matter what we do. May as well do it.

    Are you done walking on eggshells or not? I've waited 5 years, have any of you finally learned your lessons? Are you done doing limp-wristed crap that doesn't work? Are you ready to accept that you have to work with "people like me" to get this done, instead of trying to keep all the power and control to yourself just to say you did it? Because you didn't.

    Or are your balls still lost somewhere in your wive's/girlfriends' purses? Too arrogant to believe that this is a fight for everyone, even lowly trash like me have a dog in the fight. We've been doing it your way. It doesn't work. Ready to man up and try something different?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW9_GqShJPg

    [media]oW9_GqShJPg[/media]

    tag help, grape?
    Last edited by ixtow; 03-04-2016 at 08:06 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    -snip- it'd be foolish to do this all by my lonesome.

    So, does anyone in FL have the guts to actually do something for their rights, instead of sit around and talk about it?-snip-
    Without trying to be a jerk let me say you answered your own question. There probably are many others who would like to actually do something but feel it would be foolish to do it all by themselves.

    Sometimes, well maybe every time, it takes one person to get the ball rolling. But that one person would need to be courageous and have great resolve.

    But it is a good idea to call for like minded folks to band together and perhaps from there start having OC meetings openly wearing/carrying whatever guns are legal as was recently done with success in Texas.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 03-05-2016 at 07:33 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Get your mind out of the gutter. the Rino is sick and Elephant is pushing her to the hospital.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    JMHO

    The activity of open carry protest can and will succeed if a few tactical requirements are met.

    This endeavor will require many participants (overwhelming numbers) at the same time and locale to thwart "over reaction by LE" and elected officials. Just a handful of like minded people trying to accomplish this change will more than likely fail and some might end as martyrs in their quest, the remainder will be ridiculed by the anti gun media, local sheep and fudds; creating the circle of fail. (lather, rinse, repeat).

    I would hazard a guess that most people will not participate because they have too much to risk, lose or endure. Eg. arrest, incarceration, criminal record, possible loss of job, shame and/or embarrassment. I fully understand their reasoning.

    Where is Florida's equivalent to Open Carry Texas founder "Christopher J. "C.J." Grisham" ?

    Count me in as a fellow lowly trash supporter and physical participant in a large well organized, level headed open carry movement.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Noble as their efforts may be, FloridaCarry.org needs to realize that being timid and "civilized" isn't going to make this happen. We have to take the fight to the enemy. If the days of the Blue RINO are to be numbered, it's up to us to number them. ...

    ...If the talk of antique black powder revolvers serving as legal protest tender in Floriduh as it did in Texas, we need to get behind it.

    We need a quick pamphlet with a simple FAQ debunking the stupid questions, stupid opinions, outright lies, and prejudiced slander.

    I've already been OCing a neon green practice 1911. But a revolver from 185X would be better. They're only $200. You can make your own much cleaner burning powder for super cheap. ...
    Glad to see there's at least one rebel in Florida! If I lived closer, I'd be there.

    The time has passed (if it ever was) for the "Donate lots of money so we can get this passed" approach.

  6. #6
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    ixtow, as 2OLD stated, quote: Count me in as a fellow lowly trash supporter and physical participant in a large well organized, level headed open carry movement. unquote

    (sorry 2OLD this bloke is high end trash)

    but would someone please take control and assure they do not copy the LG fiasco plan OTC implemented....

    good luck and hollar if you need the presences of a warm body...

    ipse
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  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    JMHO

    The activity of open carry protest can and will succeed if a few tactical requirements are met.

    This endeavor will require many participants (overwhelming numbers) at the same time and locale to thwart "over reaction by LE" and elected officials. Just a handful of like minded people trying to accomplish this change will more than likely fail and some might end as martyrs in their quest, the remainder will be ridiculed by the anti gun media, local sheep and fudds; creating the circle of fail. (lather, rinse, repeat).

    I would hazard a guess that most people will not participate because they have too much to risk, lose or endure. Eg. arrest, incarceration, criminal record, possible loss of job, shame and/or embarrassment. I fully understand their reasoning.

    Where is Florida's equivalent to Open Carry Texas founder "Christopher J. "C.J." Grisham" ? ...
    As I have done everywhere where I've organized an open carry event, I suggest putting the authorities (generally police and prosecutors) on notice ahead of any event. This communication will facilitate communication ahead of time rather than "street corner lawyering" by all parties.

    In this way, overwhelming numbers are not required, and the point can be made over and over that lawful behavior is actually LAWFUL, and bogus arrests would be unlikely.

  8. #8
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Florida compared to Texas presents problems. Public legal long gun carry forced the issue in Texas. People in Fl are left with fishing OC, and that is not going to have the same effect as OCT events through neighborhoods. But fortunately Florida has many neighborhood fishing opportunities, plus fishing spots along the roads where the public can witness safe, and legal OC.
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  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Without trying to be a jerk let me say you answered your own question. There probably are many others who would like to actually do something but feel it would be foolish to do it all by themselves.

    Sometimes, well maybe every time, it takes one person to get the ball rolling. But that one person would need to be courageous and have great resolve.

    But it is a good idea to call for like minded folks to band together and perhaps from there start having OC meetings openly wearing/carrying whatever guns are legal as was recently done with success in Texas.
    You don't sound like a jerk, but, I haven't answered my own question. Are there enough Floridians willing to do something about this to do as you (and I) have pointed out; band together and do this as a group to thwart genocidal LEO tendencies. Rock the boat. Rouse some rabble. Those of us who don't wear a suit and tie, and do real work, have rights, too.

    Courage has nothing to do with it. It is not good enough to stroll through the valley of the shadow of death and snicker because nobody can touch you. You have to strike out at that evil, make it call in sick, at least... Though it be frail, does the arrow fear it's target? Be the arrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Get your mind out of the gutter. the Rino is sick and Elephant is pushing her to the hospital.
    I think it's a boy RINO.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    This endeavor will require many participants (overwhelming numbers) at the same time and locale to thwart "over reaction by LE" and elected officials. Just a handful of like minded people trying to accomplish this change will more than likely fail and some might end as martyrs in their quest, the remainder will be ridiculed by the anti gun media, local sheep and fudds; creating the circle of fail. (lather, rinse, repeat).
    You're absolutely right. Which is why this thread is testing the waters. Are Floridiands too stupid, lazy, and wimpy to do this, or not? Finding out.
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    The time has passed (if it ever was) for the "Donate lots of money so we can get this passed" approach.
    Yup. But still crickets and asking for handouts at FloridaCarry.org... We have to come together on this or it'll never happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    but would someone please take control and assure they do not copy the LG fiasco plan OTC implemented.
    I'm probably not the best guy for that job, but I'm stepping up since nobody else is...
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    As I have done everywhere where I've organized an open carry event, I suggest putting the authorities (generally police and prosecutors) on notice ahead of any event. This communication will facilitate communication ahead of time rather than "street corner lawyering" by all parties.
    And better yet, somewhere that isn't terribly against the idea. Even if not supportive, at least uninterested. Which Sheriff spoke in support? What about the Sheriff in Liberty County who was arrested for refusing to go along with the Liberal Agenda? There are places we can go that won't be a huge deal, but will still get noticed and talked about in leo circles. We go there first, maybe a few times, and once the matter is established; then we show up in Miami or Orlando...

    This is why I'm asking for the Legal Ninjas at FloridaCarry.org to chime in, but their continued silence appears to tell us all we need to know about their real stance on Open Carry: Do only that which we know won't work. If you don't have your nose in the air, and your pinky sticking out when you sip your Earl Grey, they won't help. That elitist division will get us nowhere.

    This: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0790.001.html appears to be in conflict with the claims made here: http://www.ammoland.com/2016/02/flor...#axzz4244ib1P5

    Even so, there's still: http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-92R.../dp/B00HZIAHH6 and: http://www.amazon.com/BLACKHAWK-Serp...rds=serpa+1911

    Then there are internet experts talking: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=514935 which statements seem to be contrary to the same statute I linked above...

    Yes, I realize this last one mentions concealment, which doesn't apply. But the argument gets broader, and unsupported either way in that thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by ronval912 on THAT thread 3 years ago
    (6) “Firearm” means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term “firearm” does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.
    but no section/subsection/paragraph number, etc...

    Also, here: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-647127.html several strong points are made, especially regarding civil war re-enactments...

    The statute language is self-contradicting spaghetti logic. It's a matter of which statement supersedes which, as declared by some judge somewhere in secret/hidden case law... Which is why I'm asking for help, and not getting any because "people like that" don't deserve any...
    Last edited by ixtow; 03-05-2016 at 04:19 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    ...We have to come together on this or it'll never happen.I'm probably not the best guy for that job, but I'm stepping up since nobody else is...And better yet, somewhere that isn't terribly against the idea. Even if not supportive, at least uninterested. Which Sheriff spoke in support? What about the Sheriff in Liberty County who was arrested for refusing to go along with the Liberal Agenda? There are places we can go that won't be a huge deal, but will still get noticed and talked about in leo circles. We go there first, maybe a few times, and once the matter is established; then we show up in Miami or Orlando... ...
    I agree with Sam Kinison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KgAilTTZnQ

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post

    but no section/subsection/paragraph number, etc...
    With reference to "Antique Firearms" you may want to look at:

    fs 790.001(1) "Antique Firearms"

    It is where the state defines the Antique Firearm.

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  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    With reference to "Antique Firearms" you may want to look at:

    fs 790.001(1) "Antique Firearms"

    It is where the state defines the Antique Firearm.

    AD
    It is logical that, once a definition is established in a section, it can't be twisted to a different meaning elsewhere in the same statute to suit the prejudiced whims of persecutors, I mean, prosecutors...

    But what has logic to do with the legal system? Especially in fantastically corrupt Floriduh?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  13. #13
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post


    Noble as their efforts may be, FloridaCarry.org needs to realize that being timid and "civilized" isn't going to make this happen. We have to take the fight to the enemy. If the days of the Blue RINO are to be numbered, it's up to us to number them.

    I've never "hunted" anything that walking in the door and laid down on my dinner plate and killed itself. If you want to make an omelette, you'll have to break some eggs.

    No matter how you defy the status quo, it will always be labeled as "I agree, but that's not how I think you should do it... I would have done it differently." Followed by not a single suggestion of what this so-called "better way" is.

    If the talk of antique black powder revolvers serving as legal protest tender in Floriduh as it did in Texas, we need to get behind it.

    We need a quick pamphlet with a simple FAQ debunking the stupid questions, stupid opinions, outright lies, and prejudiced slander.

    I've already been OCing a neon green practice 1911. But a revolver from 185X would be better. They're only $200. You can make your own much cleaner burning powder for super cheap.

    The gun Floriduh forces me to carry in order to avoid the non-existent legislated-from-the-bench printing law (which is a felony charge) is only 6+1 of .380acp. A .44cal cap and ball black powder revolver is a step up from that... So it'd be my new everyday carry in that regard alone.

    Imagine the irony of the anti's being the ones who caused us to be walking about with actual "wild west" guns, lols! And, amazingly, in their deranged eyes, not shooting up the place...

    But, knowing the FDLE's SOP of "kill everyone and fix it in the report," it'd be foolish to do this all by my lonesome.

    So, does anyone in FL have the guts to actually do something for their rights, instead of sit around and talk about it?

    Could we get at least a gesture of solidarity from FloridaCarry.org's legal team on whether or not the Antique Gun carry is a real thing?

    My CnC machine wants to make a stainless version of this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/19...er-blue-barrel Why? So that when I get caught in the rain on my bike, it's all good...

    You have to rock the boat. That's how it is. That's the very definition of any change. The status-quo won't like it no matter what we do. May as well do it.

    Are you done walking on eggshells or not? I've waited 5 years, have any of you finally learned your lessons? Are you done doing limp-wristed crap that doesn't work? Are you ready to accept that you have to work with "people like me" to get this done, instead of trying to keep all the power and control to yourself just to say you did it? Because you didn't.

    Or are your balls still lost somewhere in your wive's/girlfriends' purses? Too arrogant to believe that this is a fight for everyone, even lowly trash like me have a dog in the fight. We've been doing it your way. It doesn't work. Ready to man up and try something different?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW9_GqShJPg

    [media]oW9_GqShJPg[/media]

    tag help, grape?

    i think that's why i got banned from the Facebook page. ha

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    i think that's why i got banned from the Facebook page. ha
    It's pretty clear that the elitists are not going to help anyone who isn't themselves. This is a waste of my time. If there ever is OC in FL, it'll be for the aristocracy only. Do you really think they can do it? Do you really think they want it to happen and are doing anything more than collecting cash for "efforts" they already know won't work?

    Whatevs. I'm out. That's two major endeavours that could have made a difference cleared out of my life in the past couple months. No more wasting time on people who lose on purpose.

    I would have loved to eat a word salad as offered, but it's off the table now.

    I'm not spending one more minute pushing wet spaghetti up a hill with my nose. Life is too short. These people will never do a damned thing. I'm moving on.

    Everybody wants free stuff, including freedom itself, to just fall in their laps. Work? Hell no. Everything is Welfare now.
    Last edited by ixtow; 03-07-2016 at 04:18 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    It's pretty clear that the elitists are not going to help anyone who isn't themselves. This is a waste of my time. If there ever is OC in FL, it'll be for the aristocracy only. Do you really think they can do it? Do you really think they want it to happen and are doing anything more than collecting cash for "efforts" they already know won't work?

    Whatevs. I'm out. That's two major endeavours that could have made a difference cleared out of my life in the past couple months. No more wasting time on people who lose on purpose.

    I would have loved to eat a word salad as offered, but it's off the table now.

    I'm not spending one more minute pushing wet spaghetti up a hill with my nose. Life is too short. These people will never do a damned thing. I'm moving on.

    Everybody wants free stuff, including freedom itself, to just fall in their laps. Work? Hell no. Everything is Welfare now.


    haha true story

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