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Thread: Open carry experience at West Port in Kansas City, Missouri

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    Open carry experience at West Port in Kansas City, Missouri

    I haven't posted in a long time and figure I post my experience while I was open carrying down in West Port. Now I was down there for the food trucks and looking for a friend of mine who needed a ride home, not to cause any kind of a issue. Anyways as thinking it's been sometime since folks have seen others open carry in the Missouri area I thought most would be used to it by now, or at least out of the over reactive stage. I walked around the main strip where most of the bars are located. I got some looks and people were wondering obviously why I had a firearm on me. Nobody seemed to care except for a intoxicated female who started spouting out at me questioning why I was carrying. After she said her words, her boyfriend came up to me and apologized and told me nice piece and excellent holster. He shook my hand thanking me for open carrying and pursuing it to be a norm in society. It was refreshing knowing someone was thinking logically and had an open view. It soon turned into me having a group conversation with six people outside of Kelly's bar, we were talking about which caliber we all preferred, and our views when it comes to people over reacting about seeing a sidearm holstered on someone. Now none of these folks were military or vets, just regular people who seem to keep up on the news and kept an open view.

    Soon after all of us broke the group up to go our separate ways, I walked down the street towards burrito joint to get back to my car. A minute after I get a KCPD car with his lights on flashing me down and the officer got out to approach me. He first immediately asked why I was carrying and why here, I explained to him I've always carried and preferred open carrying than conceal. Told the officer I was down here for the food trucks and originally was picking up a friend who needed a ride home. I spoke with the officer that I understood why I was in the spot light as I understood some folks aren't comfortable with seeing someone not in uniform carrying a sidearm. The officer told me it is rare to see anyone down in this part of town carrying a sidearm openly. I notified him I was a prior vet in the Air Force, and I used to do Government contract work as an armed officer. After our short talk the officer became comfortable and we started talking about different holsters and such. He complimented me about my Safari Land Holster I recently purchased and said it was an excellent and secured holster for open carry. As to find out, it was the same holster that this particular officer was using too.

    We joked around a bit and openly spoke about the current issue of people being uncomfortable with regulars openly carrying a loaded firearm. We also spoke about the campus carry that will be allowed starting mid next year. After a while the officer and I parted ways and he told me he notified all of the officers around the area to expect to see me carrying my sidearm on me. Now here is the excellent part, officer did not ask for my I.D. but I would have given it to him without an issue. He didn't request to hold my firearm from me and using the "officer safety" as an excuse to detain my firearm. I was wearing a nice pair of jeans, nice fitted shirt, and excellent daily walking boots as my attire, I feel my appearance with my clothes and my high and tight haircut a long with my straight forward cooperation and willing to talk made him extremely comfortable without having to be on alert or suspicious of anything.

    Folks this is how any encounter should be and how you should act when anyone such as law enforcement approaches you about your firearm. No need to get up in arms and start spouting out it's my right and screaming "are you detaining me" type of rants. Sorry for the long post and most likely has some grammar errors in it without a doubt, but this encounter made me feel good about how law enforcement is becoming accustomed to seeing folks carrying openly.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    ...We also spoke about the campus carry that will be allowed starting mid next year. ...
    I presume that's campus carry in AK, not MO?

    Happy to hear about your OC experience, btw.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    --snipped--

    Folks this is how any encounter should be and how you should act when anyone such as law enforcement approaches you about your firearm. No need to get up in arms and start spouting out it's my right and screaming "are you detaining me" type of rants. Sorry for the long post and most likely has some grammar errors in it without a doubt, but this encounter made me feel good about how law enforcement is becoming accustomed to seeing folks carrying openly.
    Au contraire - there "should be" no encounter - none.

    I am neither spouting, screaming, nor ranting- just going about business and daily routine in a normal, legal manner. Let me be unmolested.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-08-2016 at 03:24 AM. Reason: fixed
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    ... The officer told me it is rare to see anyone down in this part of town carrying a sidearm openly. ...

    Folks this is how any encounter should be and how you should act when anyone such as law enforcement approaches you about your firearm. No need to get up in arms and start spouting out it's my right and screaming "are you detaining me" type of rants. Sorry for the long post and most likely has some grammar errors in it without a doubt, but this encounter made me feel good about how law enforcement is becoming accustomed to seeing folks carrying openly.
    Rarity is not a justification to initiate a encounter where the observed activity is legal.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Excellent

    A superb job, my friend. The comments so far have been "the encounter wasn't perfect." Give me a break. You have accomplished more than most by the way you handled it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    A superb job, my friend. The comments so far have been "the encounter wasn't perfect." Give me a break. You have accomplished more than most by the way you handled it.
    He consented to being detained, he did not train the cop (remind him) to follow the law and not engage a citizen who is not breaking the law.

    Training cops is easy, though somewhat rude to folks with a more delicate constitution, to simply state to the officer "Officer, I do not consent to this encounter." Followed by silence. Then the ball is on the cop's side of the net.

    If the cop does not disengage then you are not free to go and then the next step is to continue to gather data to file a formal complaint.

    If the cop leaves, then no harm no foul and about your business you go.

    If the cop don't like being treated in such a manner he will break the law further to voice his displeasure thus provide more data to add to the formal complaint.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    The officer was a great individual and didn't even attempt the first time to detain my weapon. He was just curious in general and had some questions as to why I was carrying. It ain't a big deal to answer simple logical questions without getting all fired up. He never asked for my weapon, he even stated he knew it was legal to open carry through out Missouri. He also stated he was for people to legally carry a firearm on them, we just had a great conversation about how we both knew this is something that will take people a long time to get used to and such. Also how some folks won't ever be comfortable with this type of activity and seeing it.
    Last edited by DWCook; 03-10-2016 at 07:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I presume that's campus carry in AK, not MO?

    Happy to hear about your OC experience, btw.
    Sorry I'm back in Kansas, just forgot to change my location on my profile haha! From the news reports and articles I've read it's stating next year July 2017 campus carry will be allowed and schools will have to modify their schools for the new law. Here is a KSHB news article speaking a little about it.

    http://www.kshb.com/news/state/kansa...llege-campuses

    http://www.kshb.com/news/region-kans...mpus-law-at-ku - This link has a bunch of people claiming allowing students to conceal carry on campus will endanger them. Please explain how that has stopped anyone from concealing on campus. These people think just because the LAW says so that means everyone will follow it. These students remind me of blind sheep.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    The officer was a great individual and didn't even attempt the first time to detain my weapon. He was just curious in general and had some questions as to why I was carrying. It ain't a big deal to answer simple logical questions without getting all fired up. He never asked for my weapon, he even stated he knew it was legal to open carry through out Missouri. He also stated he was for people to legally carry a firearm on them, we just had a great conversation about how we both knew this is something that will take people a long time to get used to and such. Also how some folks won't ever be comfortable with this type of activity and seeing it.
    Bravo!

    It seems that some don't recognize that each encounter is an opportunity for a nuanced, rather than a "one size fits all" approach.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    Folks this is how any encounter should be and how you should act when anyone such as law enforcement approaches you about your firearm. No need to get up in arms and start spouting out it's my right and screaming "are you detaining me" type of rants. Sorry for the long post and most likely has some grammar errors in it without a doubt, but this encounter made me feel good about how law enforcement is becoming accustomed to seeing folks carrying openly.
    If this method is what you're comfortable with, and if it works for you, I'm happy for you. Sounds like you successfully "disarmed" (eh? eh? ) this officer and maybe even successfully painted a better picture in his mind of open carriers in general.

    Your rights, I suppose, are yours to forfeit on such occasions as you'd like and think it'll be advantageous or strategic. Still, as others have suggested, I think it might be a step too far to prescribe that others should also always be so willing. I think that BB62 has this backwards, as the OP is the one proposing a single shoe size for all (offering his encounter as the model to which we should all conform.) That's just my thoughts on the matter.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Excellent experience. I am also in Kansas City and you run into some cool cops but also some cops who love their authority.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G928A using Tapatalk

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    The Officer never asked for my Drivers License or even anything of that matter. It was a simple conversation and he trusted me as an individual who was carrying a firearm. All I'm saying as human to human contact, there is no reason to act up and seem like a stubborn child if an officer has a couple questions regarding you carrying. He's a human being, you're a human being, we all ask questions. Automatically assuming the officer is out to get you just because you have a firearm on you is pretty childish. I approach officers as I approach folks who aren't law enforcement, we're all the same folks!

    I'm not trying to push anything on anyone, but being a little considerate and human goes a long way. I have no problems showing my Drivers License/I.D. to an officer if he has slight concern over me packing a weapon on me. Police officers are people just like us, yes there are a few power hunger ones who go past the line at times. But don't assume every officer is out to detain your weapon or cause you issues. If you aren't doing anything illegal and the officer has a couple questions, be a grown man and just answer them. You aren't breaking the law, so there is no reason to be overly sensitive. I've made great friends with officers by doing it this way and they never stopped me from carrying OC/concealed.
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    Here is the link for the Kansas Bill HB 2526 that explains about campus carry and how you can carry on certain facilities if they don't provide extra measures.

    http://kslegislature.net/li/b2015_16/measures/hb2526/

    I would post a bit more on the bill, but I figure you guys would read it anyways so have at it! There is a PDF link on the website you can click which will open up the bill for you to read the details on the law.
    Last edited by DWCook; 03-10-2016 at 10:04 PM.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    The Officer never asked for my Drivers License or even anything of that matter.
    Why would he ask for a driver's license? You weren't driving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Why would he ask for a driver's license? You weren't driving.
    DL as in identification of who you are, common man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    The officer was a great individual and didn't even attempt the first time to detain my weapon. He was just curious in general and had some questions as to why I was carrying. It ain't a big deal to answer simple logical questions without getting all fired up. He never asked for my weapon, he even stated he knew it was legal to open carry through out Missouri. He also stated he was for people to legally carry a firearm on them, we just had a great conversation about how we both knew this is something that will take people a long time to get used to and such. Also how some folks won't ever be comfortable with this type of activity and seeing it.
    Why you were carrying?

    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    The Officer never asked for my Drivers License or even anything of that matter. It was a simple conversation and he trusted me as an individual who was carrying a firearm. All I'm saying as human to human contact, there is no reason to act up and seem like a stubborn child if an officer has a couple questions regarding you carrying. He's a human being, you're a human being, we all ask questions. Automatically assuming the officer is out to get you just because you have a firearm on you is pretty childish. I approach officers as I approach folks who aren't law enforcement, we're all the same folks!

    I'm not trying to push anything on anyone, but being a little considerate and human goes a long way. I have no problems showing my Drivers License/I.D. to an officer if he has slight concern over me packing a weapon on me. Police officers are people just like us, yes there are a few power hunger ones who go past the line at times. But don't assume every officer is out to detain your weapon or cause you issues. If you aren't doing anything illegal and the officer has a couple questions, be a grown man and just answer them. You aren't breaking the law, so there is no reason to be overly sensitive. I've made great friends with officers by doing it this way and they never stopped me from carrying OC/concealed.
    I routinely speak to the cops in my local area because they approach me as they would as if they were seeking directions to the nearest doughnut shop. Yes, cops are people too and their demeanor is what determines my actions. With this being said, I will not relieve a cop of his duty to observe the law even when I initiate the encounter.

    Two different types of encounters. Are you willing to be as cooperative if the cop was one of those power hungry cops?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    DL as in identification of who you are, common man!
    Not everyone drives. Is there a 'stop and show your papers' law in Kansas?
    Last edited by Maverick9; 03-11-2016 at 08:23 AM.

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    I think I need to clear up a couple things that may be a little fuzzy. This encounter took place in Kansas City Missouri. Missouri does not have a law that permits carry on college campus, either now or at some point in the future. That's other than the law that says your CCW permit does not authorize you to carry there. Yes, the CCW laws are strange but clever in MO. We are working on permitting carry on campuses, and a few other odd places where it's prohibited.

    Kansas City, MO has an anti-OC ordinance on the books. It was put into place last summer, and modified last fall, after we added preemption to the state statutes to permit OC for people with a CCW permit (yes, I know that's not the end objective, but better than nothing.)

    I've not heard about anyone being asked to produce a permit though, and I've had several occasions where LEO's have waved at me and given me a thumbs up when I've been open carrying. I suspect it's not being enforced.

    There is not a "show your papers" law in Missouri, but there is some special authority given to the KCMO Police department, they can demand your name,your address, and where you're going if they have RAS. I suspect the city ordinance gives them that, but again, I've not heard of anyone getting asked. There is no requirement to produce ID.

    KC's anti-open carry ordinance is here, what a lovely link:
    https://www.municode.com/library/mo/...50-261UNUSWEEN

    It's item (6)

    The particulars on KCMO's stop and ID powers are here: http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/st...400007101.HTML

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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    . . . A minute after I get a KCPD car with his lights on flashing me down . . .
    You were detained. This wasn't a 'consensual encounter'. Glad it worked out well for you though.

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    Originally, you said the officer stopped you with flashing lights as you were walking. This is an official encounter, not just a moment of curiosity. Subsequently, you softened the report by saying he was just an individual, curious about your activity. Sorry, does not compute; this is still official. If he paid any attention at all to what you were doing, or not doing, then there is no RAS for the encounter, and no need for the flashing lights. In this case he had no cause to ask for ID and knew it. Even in the cities, the LEO has to have RAS to demand ID. Had that been the situation, I feel comfortable in betting you would have undergone a frisking.

    As pointed out by others, do whatever works for you. I will continue holding the LEO to the same laws to which I am held. I will always be civil, but when the LEO wants to know what I'm doing and why, the consensual conversation ends. The question is never 'am I detained', but 'why are you detaining me?'

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    I have no issues with answering questions by an law enforcement official. I have quite a few mutual friends who are police officers and people who I grew up with who are police officers. I treat them as if you as a opencarry member would ask me my opinion on why I'm carrying. Just because the person has a badge and asks the same question don't make it any different. Also I still had my firearm in the holster and he never asked for my ID, we just spoke and ask me one question why I was carrying and he just explained that some folks become paranoid. After that him and I spoke about holsters and some of the political matters that involves when you're open carrying. I would buy that officer a drink and play poker with him considering how he acted towards me.
    Last edited by DWCook; 03-11-2016 at 02:13 PM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "...KCPD car with his lights on flashing me down..."
    DWCook, according to the courts you were seized, which implicates your 4A right. OC4me is correct, you were "detained" then you turned the detainment into a consensual encounter.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I'll cut myself off right here, can't seem to point out the positives in these situations without someone spouting out legal code as to trying to up someone. Police officers are people just like us and I treat them as such, I don't look at the badge as a threat. Officer was just doing his job reacting to the public who is concerned with me carrying a firearm openly. After the encounter was done, the general public went back to do whatever they were doing.
    Last edited by DWCook; 03-11-2016 at 02:29 PM.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    I'll cut myself off right here, can't seem to point out the positives in these situations without someone spouting out legal code as to trying to up someone. Police officers are people just like us and I treat them as such, I don't look at the badge as a threat. Officer was just doing his job reacting to the public who is concerned with me carrying a firearm openly. After the encounter was done, the general public went back to do whatever they were doing.
    always good to see someone who summarily dismisses another (find it interesting, it isn't just one forum member either giving you their perspective) who is attempting to clarify and quantify the good conversation situation you experienced. hopefully, the next time when you do not get officer friendly and you end up with power hungry savant(s) who aren't going to treat you so kindly because they feel as JQPublic...oh i'm concerned you have a firearm...

    but you're right slide back to your comfort zone of being unable to explain the positives (hummm, again there seems to be a disagreement about your perception of positive and other members on the forum). so please hold your positive encounter high in the air so if you get swatted from a mother's MDA constitute you can continue to consider the nice LEs w/badges just like the citizens.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Au contraire - there "should be" no encounter - none.

    I am neither spouting, screaming, nor ranting- just going about business and daily routine in a normal, legal manner. Let me be unmolested.
    Absolutely agreed there was no reasonable, articulable suspicion of any crime warranting Officer Friendly's 'flashy light' seizure of a member of the public.

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