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Thread: Gun Question at doctors office?

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    Regular Member mechanicworkman's Avatar
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    Gun Question at doctors office?

    Just too the child down to doctors office for physical. Part of this process their questions included asking if their were Guns in the home! Is this legal? Seems like I heard stuff a while back about this. Can anyone elaborate?


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechanicworkman View Post
    Just too the child down to doctors office for physical. Part of this process their questions included asking if their were Guns in the home! Is this legal? Seems like I heard stuff a while back about this. Can anyone elaborate?


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    Just answer no, if you leave it blank they will put it with the yes data. It is none of their business.
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    Regular Member mechanicworkman's Avatar
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    Wasn't there a bill that came across a while back that didn't allow them to ask this? Or mabe it failed.


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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechanicworkman View Post
    Wasn't there a bill that came across a while back that didn't allow them to ask this? Or mabe it failed.


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    IIRC that was Florida.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Regular Member mechanicworkman's Avatar
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    Well looks like the great state of Missouri needs something similar!


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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/stat...e29245474.html

    from july 15, quote: For the second time in little more than a year, a federal appeals court Tuesday upheld a controversial Florida law that restricts doctors from asking questions and recording information about patients’ gun ownership. unquote

    that stated, the American Academy of Pediatrics and seven other health professional organizations and the American Bar Association have released a call for action to reduce firearm-related injury and death in the United States, according to a statement published online February 23 in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

    one of the tenants in their statement:
    quote:
    The organizations represented in the statement oppose state and federal mandates interfering with physician free speech and the patient–physician relationship, such as laws preventing physicians from discussing a patient's gun ownership. unquote.
    Retrieved 8 March 2016 from Medscap article dtd: 23 Feb 15; titled: Medical Societies Call for Reducing Gun-Related Injury, Death; written by: Laurie Barclay, MD.

    might write a letter pointing out to your personal physican's office manager they are in violation of the FL Law!!

    please understand the consequence of writing a letter...you MIGHT (read as probably) be seeking another health care provider.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-08-2016 at 01:44 PM. Reason: corrections in the citation were needed
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    In honor of Nancy Reagan....

    Just say NO!

    Heck I lie on those questionnaires all the time, like I have never used alcohol, I have never used tobacco, I have never engaged in promiscuous sex (I AM honest on the **** thing though )

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    I don't suggest lying about anything that might actually affect your diagnosis or care. In fact, one item often forgotten that can be important if you are facing an unexplained illness is what foreign travel you've done in the last couple of years, or ever, depending on the symptoms. As one example, I believe US blood banks still impose a lifetime ban on donations from anyone who has lived in the UK for more than some number of months due to the increased risk (still small total risk, but statistically significant increased risk) of contracting mad cow disease.

    Do bear in mind the evolving and complicated relationship that exists between doctors/nurses and patients. The days of having strict doctor-patient confidentiality and the doctor working strictly for the patient are coming to an end. And this is when you, the adult are the patient. Things get very sticky when the patient is your minor child.

    In (many) States health care providers are legally required to report to authorities any suspicion of child abuse or neglect, including medical neglect. The latter can include not following doctors' medical recommendations for treatment as happened some 13 years ago in Utah with a then 12 year old boy named Parker Jensen. (Your favorite internet search engine will turn up several news stories in addition to the one I linked to.)

    While a mostly healthy adult can probably just avoid having a relationship with a doctor if he chooses, parents probably need to have a decent working relationship with a pediatrician. Kids get sick and the ER is really expensive. Kids will need a physical for many school or other activities. Most schools (public and private) require vaccinations. A good working relationship with the pediatrician can make it very easy to get what some might consider to be a less risky schedule than the standard. And if a kid ever does end up in an ER with an innocent injury that could also have been caused by abuse or any form of neglect is ever accused (ie an uptight neighbor seeing a free-range parenting style next door), a good relationship with a pediatrician can provide useful evidence in your favor.

    In my opinion, doctors should no more be asking about firearms in homes than they would ask about a family's religious affiliation or devotion. I can imagine rare cases where it might make sense to ask such questions, but that information should not be sought routinely.

    That said, I'm way less interested in "educating" or converting my child's pediatrician or other doctor to my view on guns than I am in making sure my child receives the care he needs when he needs it, while also working to protect my child, my family's privacy, and my parental rights from the risk of overly-intrusive government power.

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    I think that the Dr. violated MO law by asking about guns in the home unless he did so because of a court order. See the URL below for the complete bill that was passed by the MO legislature and vetoed by the Gov then the veto was over ridden.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/st...100000121.html
    Last edited by 9026543; 03-08-2016 at 08:35 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    I think that the Dr. violated MO law by asking about guns in the home unless he did so because of a court order. See the URL below for the complete bill that was passed by the MO legislature and vetoed by the Gov then the veto was over ridden.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/st...100000121.html
    As I read the law it does not prohibit them from asking, only disclosing.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...ec300gg-17.pdf

    (c) Protection of Second Amendment gun rights
    (1) Wellness and prevention programs
    A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—
    (A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or
    (B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.
    (2) Limitation on data collection
    None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—
    (A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;
    (B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
    (C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
    (3) Limitation on databases or data banks
    None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.
    (4) Limitation on determination of premium rates or eligibility for health insurance
    A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon—
    (A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
    (B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.
    (5) Limitation on data collection requirements for individuals
    No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to—
    (A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
    (B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.
    Doc, don't even think of asking about firearms......

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Does the same form ask about the presence of a swimming pool? Cleaning chemicals? Motor vehicles? If no, there is a clear agenda that has nothing to do with "safety."
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    No state law can compel a doctor to ask (RSMo 571.012. 1.), and no doctor is prohibited by law from asking (RSMo 571.012. 3.). There is a vague reference to RSMo 632 in RSMo 571.012. 3.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member mechanicworkman's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the clairification


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    Quote Originally Posted by mechanicworkman View Post
    Just too the child down to doctors office for physical. Part of this process their questions included asking if their were Guns in the home! Is this legal? Seems like I heard stuff a while back about this. Can anyone elaborate?


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    Go find a new doctor. Simple.

    So you heard this stuff before and were surprised?

    Hmmmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Does the same form ask about the presence of a swimming pool? Cleaning chemicals? Motor vehicles? If no, there is a clear agenda that has nothing to do with "safety."
    +1

    Also, the unused alternative helps tell the tale. The medical community could launch a national gun safety training campaign for kids. You don't need to ask invasive questions of parents in order to print up gun safety brochures for the pediatrician waiting room. If they can't afford to print them, they could ask the NRA for freebies.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    My honest opinion is it's none of their concern if there is or isn't firearms in the house hold. Some of the questions asked on these forms are I feel slipped in so information can be found through other means. I can see the good and bad about that particular question. But I've told my buddies to just answer no on that question considering it's none of their business since it's not a "medical" question. Also why do they need to know this information when it's just a simple medical checkup that's not anything related to firearms?
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    My honest opinion is it's none of their concern if there is or isn't firearms in the house hold. Some of the questions asked on these forms are I feel slipped in so information can be found through other means. I can see the good and bad about that particular question. But I've told my buddies to just answer no on that question considering it's none of their business since it's not a "medical" question. Also why do they need to know this information when it's just a simple medical checkup that's not anything related to firearms?
    why am i concerned your buddies are asking you how to fill out their medical forms, let alone you are responding and advising them to the point they listen...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    "Well we had a Bofors 37 mm anti-tank gun, but my wife wanted to trade up to a howitzer, or a 12 inch coastal defense mortar..."

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    "Well we had a Bofors 37 mm anti-tank gun, but my wife wanted to trade up to a howitzer, or a 12 inch coastal defense mortar..."
    still got the spouse?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    As I read the law it does not prohibit them from asking, only disclosing.
    571.012.
    1. No health care professional licensed in this state, nor anyone under his or her supervision, shall be required by law to:
    (1) Inquire as to whether a patient owns or has access to a firearm;
    (2) Document or maintain in a patient's medical records whether such patient owns or has access to a firearm; or
    (3) Notify any governmental entity of the identity of a patient based solely on the patient's status as an owner of, or the patient's access to, a firearm.
    2. No health care professional licensed in this state, nor anyone under his or her supervision, nor any person or entity that has possession or control of medical records, may disclose information gathered in a doctor/patient relationship about the status of a patient as an owner of a firearm, unless by order of a court of appropriate jurisdiction, in response to a threat to the health or safety of that patient or another person, as part of a referral to a mental health professional, or with the patient's express consent on a separate document dealing solely with firearm ownership. The separate document shall not be filled out as a matter of routine, but only when, in the judgment of the health care professional, it is medically indicated or necessitated.
    3. Nothing in this section shall be construed as prohibiting or otherwise restricting a health care professional from inquiring about and documenting whether a patient owns or has access to a firearm if such inquiry or documentation is necessitated or medically indicated by the health care professional's judgment and such inquiry or documentation does not violate any other state or federal law.
    4. No health care professional licensed in this state shall use an electronic medical record program that requires, in order to complete and save a medical record, entry of data regarding whether a patient owns, has access to, or lives in a home containing a firearm.
    This law is a joke. This legislature did a rope-a-dope with the public. Instead prohibiting the asking, they just prohibited the forced 'asking' by law. In other words, it only prohibits the State, County and City Health agencies from asking this question. Any Dr can still ask it and record it in your file. The good part is you don't have to answer if it isn't part of the health issue. Any comments the Dr makes will be his/her assumption.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Federal law prohibits asking the questions. I have a doctor friend says they cannot ask. He also said some doctors just don't care and they are going to ask.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Federal law prohibits asking the questions. I have a doctor friend says they cannot ask. He also said some doctors just don't care and they are going to ask.
    Why do I hear some states having laws against it if there is already a federal law against it? How is the federal law worded?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Federal law prohibits asking the questions. I have a doctor friend says they cannot ask. He also said some doctors just don't care and they are going to ask.
    Can you point to me where that is? HIPAA may be what they are referring to. It is the umbrella that prohibits the dissemination of the health related information, except under certain circumstances, but doesn't prohibit the asking. IIRC, AMA came out and requested doctors to ask as well as the equivalent to AMA but for Pediatrics.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    and here i got lambasted for pointing out Fed appeals court upheld the ban on FL doc asking about gun ownership...

    as well as the push by the American Academy of Pediatrics and seven other health professional organizations and the American Bar Association have released a call for action to reduce firearm-related injury and death in the United States, according to a statement published online February 23 in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

    seems the bar association is pushing hard as are other health care professional organizations...so not sure there is a federal mandate or they would be challenging that per se...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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