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Thread: Defendants barred from entering court arrested for being late

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Defendants barred from entering court arrested for being late

    Ran across this on the interwebbs this afternoon.
    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/crime-c...371336111.html

    Judge claims bailiff misunderstood the meaning of .... bar the door / bar entry.


    FUQ:
    Suzanne Webb was barred from entering Campbell County General Sessions Court and then arrested for being late, records show.
    Webb is not alone.

    A News Sentinel investigation into Judge Amanda Sammons' practice of barring entry by the public to the public courtroom over which she presides as she sounds her docket revealed more than a half dozen instances in which Sammons ordered defendants arrested after being made late by her own policy.

    The Tennessee Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the state's adult courtrooms and the hearings taking place within them are open to the public. To close a courtroom to the public, one of the parties involved in the case must request a closure and prove why the need for closure outweighs the public interest. A judge then decides.


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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Wow, lock them out and then arrest them for not being allowed to enter.

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    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Suzanne Webb must lose here license to practice law and be fired. No further employment with the government or the legal profession. Let her work at KFC to earn a living.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    uh, guys, hate to break it to ya but ms Webb is the individual who got arrested...and Judge Amanda Sammon who,

    quote: Amanda H. Sammons is a judge for the Campbell County General Sessions Court and the Campbell County Juvenile Court in Tennessee. She was elected in August 2014, effective September 1. Her term expires on August 31, 2022.

    Sammons received her J.D. from the University of Tennessee at Knoxville

    Sammons ran for election to the Campbell County General Sessions Court.
    General: She defeated Joseph M. Ayers and Kathy Parrot in the general election on August 7, 2014, receiving 39 percent of the vote.
    unquote https://ballotpedia.org/Amanda_H._Sammons

    quote: She has been accused of refusing to sign orders for accused persons who are entitled to have their records expunged, and ordering children into foster care in the absence of any request from the Department of Child Services.

    Formerly a kick-ass prosecutor, Judge Sammons’ election website says:


    “With a low tolerance for foolishness, Mandy’s tough approach to prosecuting crime has earned her a reputation as hard-nosed prosecutor who “goes for the jugular” and doesn’t quickly back down from a fight.”
    unquote https://ballotpedia.org/Amanda_H._Sammons

    this is why you will not be able to recall...she is part of the good olde boy judicial system...

    lovely individual...ya'll can keep her honor...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-09-2016 at 08:33 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The problem is this is typical conduct by many judged across America.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    uh, guys, hate to break it to ya but ms Webb is the individual who got arrested...and Judge Amanda Sammon who,

    ...

    ipse
    Dang...another indiscriminate and tragic drive-by copy/paste...

    ...thanks for the correction...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    I don't get it.
    A 09:00 court start means you should be inside the courtroom before 09:00, not arriving at the front door of the courthouse at 09:00.
    It's not that difficult.
    My father taught me, "If you're not 30 minutes early, you're late".
    Last edited by Shovelhead; 03-09-2016 at 12:18 PM.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    I don't get it.
    A 09:00 court start means you should be inside the courtroom before 09:00, not arriving at the front door of the courthouse at 09:00.
    It's not that difficult.
    My father taught me, "If you're not 30 minutes early, you're late".
    I do not know how many times you've been to court.

    From my experience if the start time is 0900 the judge does not even show up until 0915. While some judges do show up at 0900 they ask the prosecutor who is ready. They then heard the ready short cases after that they hear whomever is next. Being there 30 minutes early means you pay another 5-20$ in parking fees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    I don't get it.
    A 09:00 court start means you should be inside the courtroom before 09:00, not arriving at the front door of the courthouse at 09:00.
    It's not that difficult.
    My father taught me, "If you're not 30 minutes early, you're late".
    A local business uses, "Come early or late to avoid the wait." I suspect that the logic escapes many, particularly defendants with 0900 cases. As I think of it, that business is just around the corner from the County Courthouse on The Four Corners of Law.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I remember a field trip to a municipal court when I was in elementary school. Everyone had to be seated before court began, and the only way to get into the court room after it began was to have a really good reason, and to be escorted in by a bailiff. The doors were locked. One could quietly leave at any time, but the same criteria was used for reentry. Seemed to make for a more dignified courtroom with a lot less distractions.

    Should a courtroom's dignity be that high of a priority, though? I guess I could have mixed feelings about it.

    I've always found tardiness to be one of my biggest pet peeves. I find it hard to blame a judge for having a low tolerance of it for a courtroom appearance, but I don't give her a white card for it, either. I sure hope she treats the defendant with an excuse of "a train derailed on my way to court" better than one that just didn't care to get there on time.

    One should not be required by law to own a suit, but on the other hand (and in the same vein (how is that possible?), I have no sympathy for people who show up to court in shorts and sandals.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-09-2016 at 01:31 PM.
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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I do not know how many times you've been to court.

    From my experience if the start time is 0900 the judge does not even show up until 0915. While some judges do show up at 0900 they ask the prosecutor who is ready. They then heard the ready short cases after that they hear whomever is next. Being there 30 minutes early means you pay another 5-20$ in parking fees.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    I've driven from Arlington to Chesterfield for a court date.
    That's about 2 hours for those interested.
    I arrived an hour early, found which courtroom I was supposed to be in, and waited for the courtroom doors to open.
    This ain't rocket surgery.
    If you're late, suck it up and pay the "late tax".
    Next time, you won't be late.
    As for the "whopping parking fees", balance that against the time it will take to get the legal knots untangled from being late... Or don't do stuff that gets you a day in court.
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    I imagine that we veterans are less tolerant of tardiness and slovenly appearance than the less disciplined.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Tortoise Nervosa

    A little levity.



    Notwithstanding the fact of tardiness there is yet a perceived issue of a closed public proceeding.

    Does the Judge close the court to the public, or simply prevent entry upon sounding of the docket?




    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    A little levity. Does the Judge close the court to the public, or simply prevent entry upon sounding of the docket? ~Whitney
    Is this a term of art with which I am unfamiliar, sounding of the docket, what does it mean, please? To me a docket is a list, an appointment book if you will.

    I believe that access to a court is at the judge's whim, and if one disagrees then see the bailiff.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-09-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    It is unconstitutional to close the court room to the public while the court is doing its business. That would constitute a secrete trial or Star Chamber. The U.S. Supreme Court said that a Star Chamber symbolized the disregard of one of the most basic individual rights, a public trial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    A little levity.



    Notwithstanding the fact of tardiness there is yet a perceived issue of a closed public proceeding.

    Does the Judge close the court to the public, or simply prevent entry upon sounding of the docket?




    ~Whitney
    never saw that scene ... that show had some funny moments.


    However, getting to the threads premise. I was recently kicked out of a courtroom...I was wearing a hat prior to the court being in session and one of the cops demanded I remove it. There's no law or rule saying you have to remove your hat simply because you are in a courtroom so I told him to FO. So I got booted out. I had a hearing that morning..about 10 min after I got booted out. The cops told the guys on the front door security detail never to let me in again.

    A traffic case, still yet to be resolved, ... what do judges do when you are not there? They issue out failure to appear warrants (a misdemeanor).

    So here I am outside the court house and would not be let in even though a hearing is going to happen in 10 min.

    What would you do?

    Well, I whipped out my telephone directory for the judicial branch in my state (yes, I always bring it with me when I visit a court bldg.) and called the state's presiding judge's secretary and explained my predicament. Five minutes later I'm back in the court room, court still has not started...everyone in the courtroom looked at me astonished because when the guy dragged me out he said "you'll never set foot in here again!". And I had to chew out the front security detail when they initially did not allow me entry.

    I've had judges toss me out of courtrooms that I am waiting for my case to be called ... usually for pointing to my watch, highlighting the tardiness of the court. Again, I just call another judge that has some control over them.

    I've been waiting for my case to be called in traffic court a few times (you're waiting there for hours sometimes) and had to go to the john .. come back and find that the case was called. I usually get those fixed right there, never an issue with that.

    But here is a person who's property is at stake not being allowed into a courtroom due to some wacko judge. Sure, they should have prepared and had phone numbers of judges who could solve this issue .. but I think that I'm the only one who carries around the judicial telephone directory with him when he goes to court...

    I've been late once not due to my own reason - for a gay rights parade that caused a delay for all going to the courthouse from one direction.

    These folks should be be kept out of their own hearings because they are "late" for the opening of the court.

    Total 1000% BS. This judge would have had me at her home complaining about her - exercising my 1st amendment right ! At 3am.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    never saw that scene ... that show had some funny moments.


    However, getting to the threads premise. I was recently kicked out of a courtroom...I was wearing a hat prior to the court being in session and one of the cops demanded I remove it. There's no law or rule saying you have to remove your hat simply because you are in a courtroom so I told him to FO. So I got booted out. I had a hearing that morning..about 10 min after I got booted out. The cops told the guys on the front door security detail never to let me in again.

    A traffic case, still yet to be resolved, ... what do judges do when you are not there? They issue out failure to appear warrants (a misdemeanor).

    So here I am outside the court house and would not be let in even though a hearing is going to happen in 10 min.

    What would you do?

    Well, I whipped out my telephone directory for the judicial branch in my state (yes, I always bring it with me when I visit a court bldg.) and called the state's presiding judge's secretary and explained my predicament. Five minutes later I'm back in the court room, court still has not started...everyone in the courtroom looked at me astonished because when the guy dragged me out he said "you'll never set foot in here again!". And I had to chew out the front security detail when they initially did not allow me entry.

    I've had judges toss me out of courtrooms that I am waiting for my case to be called ... usually for pointing to my watch, highlighting the tardiness of the court. Again, I just call another judge that has some control over them.

    I've been waiting for my case to be called in traffic court a few times (you're waiting there for hours sometimes) and had to go to the john .. come back and find that the case was called. I usually get those fixed right there, never an issue with that.

    But here is a person who's property is at stake not being allowed into a courtroom due to some wacko judge. Sure, they should have prepared and had phone numbers of judges who could solve this issue .. but I think that I'm the only one who carries around the judicial telephone directory with him when he goes to court...

    I've been late once not due to my own reason - for a gay rights parade that caused a delay for all going to the courthouse from one direction.

    These folks should be be kept out of their own hearings because they are "late" for the opening of the court.

    Total 1000% BS. This judge would have had me at her home complaining about her - exercising my 1st amendment right ! At 3am.
    Audio/video? If not, it did not happen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Audio/video? If not, it did not happen.
    +1

    I wear hats with full brims and have realized that the courtesy in wearing one is taking it off, doffing it, appropriately.

    The judge is the court, not the room in which the judge presides. The judge might hold court, and once did, in a saloon that was once a salon where the king held court.

    A hat wearer gives courtesy by removing the hat to honor the lady, the lady's home, the judge, the judge'd domain, the anthem, the maitre d hote, the commanding officer.

    Contrariwise it is fully appropriate and reasonable to turn ones back on Obama.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-16-2016 at 07:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Audio/video? If not, it did not happen.
    I got audio ....

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    Here it is simple, at 0800 the court is in session, the clerk calls out the docket all those not present get a warrant sworn out for them, Failure to Appear.

    The warrant directs any peace officer to arrest that person and deliver them to the magistrate to whom you may plead your case and show mitigating circumstances that prevented you from being on time.


    Moral of the story, you know when you are supposed to be in court, be there on time and dressed appropriately.
    Last edited by radio3579; 03-19-2016 at 12:24 PM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radio3579 View Post
    Here it is simple, at 0800 the court is in session, the clerk calls out the docket all those not present get a warrant sworn out for them, Failure to Appear.

    The warrant directs any peace officer to arrest that person and deliver them to the magistrate to whom you may plead your case and show mitigating circumstances that prevented you from being on time.


    Moral of the story, you know when you are supposed to be in court, be there on time and dressed appropriately.
    So, it is okay to dictate what clothing has to be worn in court?

    How can any tax on clothing be valid if this is true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by radio3579 View Post
    Here it is simple, at 0800 the court is in session, the clerk calls out the docket all those not present get a warrant sworn out for them, Failure to Appear.

    The warrant directs any peace officer to arrest that person and deliver them to the magistrate to whom you may plead your case and show mitigating circumstances that prevented you from being on time.


    Moral of the story, you know when you are supposed to be in court, be there on time and dressed appropriately.
    Moral of the story: its a scam...just a revenue getting branch of the gov't.

    How do we know from what Radio noted? Simple: speeding cases, stop light etc are all civil offenses in most states now. How can you get a criminal charge coming out of that by doing NOTHING? In civil cases the worst that should happen is you get a default judgment that you can clear up if you had good cause...here you get arrested. Nize.

    Folks look at the judiciary as if they have members who are better than most ~ a clue: they don't

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    So, it is okay to dictate what clothing has to be worn in court?
    --snipped--
    Judges do just that. No hats, no short pants, etc.

    It is their fiefdom. Violate it at your own risk - contempt of court.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Judges do just that. No hats, no short pants, etc.

    It is their fiefdom. Violate it at your own risk - contempt of court.
    Well, the guy did not ask if it is the way it is (like people prohibiting OCing) but do you agree with it?

    I think its retarded "a show of respect" ... well, what if you don't have any respect? First amendment does not end at that doorway ... I have told judges that time and time again.

    Contempt of court? I am very familiar with that LOL.....how many hours inside cells for just that? More than anything else.

    I know from experience that judges do not like F-bombs ....

    You folks may say your rights can be regulated ... I say not.

    At least on my deathbed I'll gain total consciousness .. so I got that going for me.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 03-19-2016 at 05:09 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Judges do just that. No hats, no short pants, etc.

    It is their fiefdom. Violate it at your own risk - contempt of court.
    So much for "the peoples court" eh.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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