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Thread: Legality of carrying an extendable baton, openly or concealed in MI.

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    Question Legality of carrying an extendable baton, openly or concealed in MI.

    Hey everyone, I'm posting here today because I'm interested in learning about the legality of carrying an extendable baton, and using it in self defense if need be. Everywhere else I've looked I've found conflicting information.

    I've been told:
    A: It's legal to carry and use in self defense.
    B: It's illegal to carry or use in self defense.
    C: It's all a legal grey area.
    D: It's legal to carry, illegal to use in self defense.
    E: It's legal to carry, a grey area to use in self defense.

    Some backstory real quick. I'm a photographer living in SE Michigan, and I spend a lot of my time in less than safe areas. For example, I do a lot of Ruins photography in Detroit. I usually go do photography with 1 or 2 other urban explorers who enjoy exploring abandoned buildings with me. We carry a variety of weapons for self defense. Some carry knives, mace, or in the case of a couple of veterans, concealed firearms. Personally, I carry a spring-assisted knife and pepper-gel spray for self protection. A couple of the people I explore with, including myself, are interested in carrying batons for self protection. One already does, doubling as a monopod for his camera (he attached a tripod screw to the back on the base.) Since I'm sure someone will ask, we do understand that batons are tools which require a fair amount of practice to use in an effective manner. We're all actually somewhat experienced with the basics of baton usage thanks to one of the veterans we explore with, although none of what you might call proper training.

    So here are my questions in a nutshell:
    1. Can I legally carry my baton in Michigan?
    2. Can I use my baton in self defense against an assailant?
    3. If legal to carry, must the baton be carried openly, in full sight, or may it be concealed, placed inside my jacket for example? What if it's on my belt and partially covered by a shirt or jacket.
    4. As I mentioned in my post, I know a photographer who carries a baton which has been modified to fit a second use, other than as a weapon. Does this make the baton any more legal to carry, as he claims?
    5. Where can my friends and I receive proper training with baton, so as to be able to use them as effectively as possible?

    The batons we own:



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    Quote Originally Posted by ChernobylShadow View Post
    Hey everyone, I'm posting here today because I'm interested in learning about the legality of carrying an extendable baton, and using it in self defense if need be. Everywhere else I've looked I've found conflicting information.

    I've been told:
    A: It's legal to carry and use in self defense.
    B: It's illegal to carry or use in self defense.
    C: It's all a legal grey area.
    D: It's legal to carry, illegal to use in self defense.
    E: It's legal to carry, a grey area to use in self defense.

    Some backstory real quick. I'm a photographer living in SE Michigan, and I spend a lot of my time in less than safe areas. For example, I do a lot of Ruins photography in Detroit. I usually go do photography with 1 or 2 other urban explorers who enjoy exploring abandoned buildings with me. We carry a variety of weapons for self defense. Some carry knives, mace, or in the case of a couple of veterans, concealed firearms. Personally, I carry a spring-assisted knife and pepper-gel spray for self protection. A couple of the people I explore with, including myself, are interested in carrying batons for self protection. One already does, doubling as a monopod for his camera (he attached a tripod screw to the back on the base.) Since I'm sure someone will ask, we do understand that batons are tools which require a fair amount of practice to use in an effective manner. We're all actually somewhat experienced with the basics of baton usage thanks to one of the veterans we explore with, although none of what you might call proper training.

    So here are my questions in a nutshell:
    1. Can I legally carry my baton in Michigan?
    2. Can I use my baton in self defense against an assailant?
    3. If legal to carry, must the baton be carried openly, in full sight, or may it be concealed, placed inside my jacket for example? What if it's on my belt and partially covered by a shirt or jacket.
    4. As I mentioned in my post, I know a photographer who carries a baton which has been modified to fit a second use, other than as a weapon. Does this make the baton any more legal to carry, as he claims?
    5. Where can my friends and I receive proper training with baton, so as to be able to use them as effectively as possible?

    The batons we own:


    The very fact that you have to ask demonstrates how convoluted and screwed up our laws are in Michigan (and in the rest of the country). Its often impossible for law-abiding citizens to know what is legal and what is not. Even if someone on this forum 'cleared' up state law for you on the subject, you may still run afoul of local ordinances.

    My advice is to just make a monopod out of the thing, like the other fellow is doing, and keep your mouth shut. Why not just open carry or conceal carry a proper self defense tool?
    Last edited by OC4me; 03-22-2016 at 09:35 AM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    so OP you basically are trespassing private property by your own admission (quote: I do a lot of Ruins photography in Detroit. I usually go do photography with 1 or 2 other urban explorers who enjoy exploring abandoned buildings with me. unquote) to claim artifacts of value??

    all under the guise of taking fotos...

    do you get property releases to take these photos from the responsible property owner?

    trust me that will be the least of your worries when you stumble upon a property being occupied and you use deadly force to escape...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so OP you basically are trespassing private property by your own admission .... all under the guise of taking fotos...

    do you get property releases to take these photos from the responsible property owner?

    trust me that will be the least of your worries when you stumble upon a property being occupied and you use deadly force to escape...

    ipse
    In some cases, it could be said I am trespassing. Most of the buildings I explore don't really have owners anymore, and lack no-trespassing signs, or doors for that matter. If I can find out who the owner is though, I always ask permission. And yes, I do it to take photographs. I enjoy documenting the abandoned and less seen parts of the human infrastructure.

    I've actually never had any major problems with squatters or thugs in the buildings. My biggest issues have been with wild animals and homeless/thugs on the streets.

    Still, never hurts to be ready.

    Also, only a fool uses a baton to apply deadly force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so OP you basically are trespassing private property by your own admission (quote: I do a lot of Ruins photography in Detroit. I usually go do photography with 1 or 2 other urban explorers who enjoy exploring abandoned buildings with me. unquote) to claim artifacts of value??

    all under the guise of taking fotos...

    do you get property releases to take these photos from the responsible property owner?

    trust me that will be the least of your worries when you stumble upon a property being occupied and you use deadly force to escape...

    ipse
    Every state is different, I wouldn't presume to know the trespassing laws in your state (North Carolina, right?) but in Michigan, it might be the case that they aren't technically 'trespassing' unless put on prior notice (i.e. signage or communication from the owner or their representative).
    Last edited by OC4me; 03-22-2016 at 07:51 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    Every state is different, I wouldn't presume to know the trespassing laws in your state (North Carolina, right?) but in Michigan, it might be the case that they aren't technically 'trespassing' unless put on prior notice (i.e. signage or communication from the owner or their representative).
    let me assist you OC4ME in quantifying your in Michigan... 'it might be the case...' statement as well as meet OCDO's forum criteria...

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931
    750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; exception; violation; penalty; "process server" defined.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(tw0...me=mcl-750-552

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    let me assist you OC4ME in quantifying your in Michigan... 'it might be the case...' statement as well as meet OCDO's forum criteria...
    ...
    ipse
    Let ME assist YOU Solus in reading the law that you posted...


    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931


    750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; exception; violation; penalty; "process server" defined.

    Sec. 552.

    (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not do any of the following:

    (a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden to do so by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    These are abandoned locations, meaning they HAVE no owner, unless it be the municipality or the state. And they have NOT been notified to stay out, as was stated there is no signage stating that.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    A question was asked and an answer was given, amazing.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_XD View Post
    Let ME assist YOU Solus in reading the law that you posted...

    snip... (added by solus ~ the statutes were read when i found them after the poster failed to provide a cite for their 'it might be the case' statement.

    These are abandoned locations, meaning they HAVE no owner, unless it be the municipality or the state. And they have NOT been notified to stay out, as was stated there is no signage stating that.
    1. they are deeded to someone & therefore have an owner!
    2. the initial posting by the OP didn't mention there was no signage until after i raised the question.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    1. they are deeded to someone & therefore have an owner!
    2. the initial posting by the OP didn't mention there was no signage until after i raised the question.

    ipse
    Me thinks that you are actually a Californian.

  11. #11
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    Me thinks that you are actually a Californian.
    me think the necessity for insult is unwarranted ~ huh?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    1. they are deeded to someone & therefore have an owner!
    2. the initial posting by the OP didn't mention there was no signage until after i raised the question.

    ipse
    You must not be from Michigan. If you were you would understand the situation in Detroit. The cops usually don't go after scrappers because they don't know who the owner of the property. Without that information who is there to press charges? Maybe you can come by and find the owners of the properties for the op since you think it is easy.

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    Could have an interesting effect on carrying baton any place in the country.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ChernobylShadow View Post
    Also, only a fool uses a baton to apply deadly force.
    It is wise to use what one has on hand when action needs to be taken.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    It is wise to use what one has on hand when action needs to be taken.

    But EVERY situation doesn't require deadly force.

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    At Shadow - a couple of things from my time in MI (moved to AZ a few years ago) so do your research as things change. MI has NO knife preemption. So carrying one leaves you open to local ordinances.

    Batons (were/are) illegal for the public in MI (only police & security agencies).
    http://www.my-self-defense.com/michi...aton-laws.html

    MI has/had very strict laws on pepper spay / MACE. Make sure it meets MI requirements.

    Open carry is legal, however it is GREATLY aided by having a CPL. Otherwise you are limited to carrying on foot & must be very aware of where you can't carry without the permit (basically anywhere that is licensed to sell alcohol) aka Meijer, Kroger, party stores, gas stations etc ....

    If you do OC be VERY careful when going to & from your car. MI considers anywhere in or on the car to be in the car. That means without the CPL you could be charged with a felony for simply loading/unloading your pistol inside your trunk or on the bumper, truck bed / tailgate.

    If there ever was a state that needed Constitutional Carry, MI sure fits the bill in my honest opinion.

    For opencarry laws in MI see MSP legal update #86

    For stun guns see #100 (must have CPL , must buy & take training from authorized sellers, must use confetti cartridges that shoot the serial #'s out with probes etc....)

    for a start on what you need to know.
    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...131---,00.html

    Good luck & hope you don't need it.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 04-06-2016 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Link
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    On a side note the 6 cell maglite flash lights are still legal in MI last I checked & not only offer some defense via clubbing but they can also be used to temporarily blind a attacker.
    http://www.frys.com/product/1869765?...l2MxoCfQTw_wcB
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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