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Thread: Idaho: Governor Otter Signs Permitless Carry Legislation!

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    Idaho: Governor Otter Signs Permitless Carry Legislation!

    Idaho: Governor Otter Signs Permitless Carry Legislation!




    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ry-legislation




    "This afternoon, March 25, 2016, Governor C.L. “Butch” Otter (R) signed Senate Bill 1389, NRA-endorsed permitless carry legislation. On July 1, 2016, Idaho will become the eighth state to recognize a law-abiding adult’s ability to possess a concealed handgun for self-defense without government-mandated permitting and fees"


    CONGRATULATIONS IDAHO!
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-26-2016 at 07:04 AM.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    Idaho: Governor Otter Signs Permitless Carry Legislation!
    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ry-legislation

    "This afternoon, March 25, 2016, Governor C.L. “Butch” Otter (R) signed Senate Bill 1389, NRA-endorsed permitless carry legislation. On July 1, 2016, Idaho will become the eighth state to recognize a law-abiding adult’s ability to possess a concealed handgun for self-defense without government-mandated permitting and fees" snipp...
    and the OC'g community should be excited, cuz?
    quote:
    SB 1389 ensures that the existing and long-standing concealed weapon license (CWL) exemption applicable “outside the limits or confines of any city” only protects the rights of law-abiding individuals.
    ​SB 1389 exempts law-abiding Idahoans, who are twenty-one years of age or older, from having to obtain a CWL in order to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense within city limits.
    ​SB 1389 provides a mechanism for well-trained, law-abiding individuals who are eighteen years of age or older to obtain a CWL. unquote
    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ry-legislation

    so lets see, > 18yo still need to obtain a CWL to carry
    so let's see, >21 yo do not have to have a CWL to carry within city limits

    ya this is a big opportunity to ID citizens...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-25-2016 at 09:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    and the OC'g community should be excited, cuz?
    quote:
    SB 1389 ensures that the existing and long-standing concealed weapon license (CWL) exemption applicable “outside the limits or confines of any city” only protects the rights of law-abiding individuals.
    ​SB 1389 exempts law-abiding Idahoans, who are twenty-one years of age or older, from having to obtain a CWL in order to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense within city limits.
    ​SB 1389 provides a mechanism for well-trained, law-abiding individuals who are eighteen years of age or older to obtain a CWL. unquote
    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ry-legislation

    so lets see, > 18yo still need to obtain a CWL to carry
    so let's see, >21 yo do not have to have a CWL to carry within city limits

    ya this is a big opportunity to ID citizens...

    ipse


    ?
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    ?
    i shall reiterate my statement...why should the OC'g community get excited about a hacked CC bill where > 18yo have to get a CWL; and so forth...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    permit less carry into other states

    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Congratulations Idaho!! Everybody is doing it except Ky. Constitutional Carry is sweeping the nation and we are stuck in 1999. Hell, New Jersey might be next!!
    I can't tell you how jealous I am.
    First off, congratulations of the new freedoms that Idaho residents now will get. No law bill is perfect, and are always compromises, but it is still a great improvement.
    How does permit-less carry affect your right(IDAHO CITIZEN) to carry within other "permit" states when no permit is needed. At least with my non-resident AZ permit , I can carry in the vast majority of the other states. I would still think you need a permit from some jurisdiction that has an CCW agreement with WHATEVER other state you travel to.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    --snipped-- Have a little faith, brother.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ion-Introduced
    Even the faith of a mustard seed works. Mighty oaks begin as a small acorn.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    We are hoping that this will be a stepping stone to true constitutional carry. The "Moms" group worked pretty hard to defeat it. Glad we prevailed.

    It previously was permit-less legal for concealed carry outside city limits for all over 18. Now it has changed to only Idaho residents 21 or older. But, added permit-less inside city limits carry to Idaho residents 21 and older. Non residents must have a permit in possession.

    So it seems one step forward and two back.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Last edited by Steve47; 03-26-2016 at 10:09 PM.

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    Well, if you are 18 and carrying they cannot force you to provide ID, right? Because that would violate the 5th.

    Remember registration schemes where felons could not be required to register due to 5th amendment issues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    We are hoping that this will be a stepping stone to true constitutional carry. The "Moms" group worked pretty hard to defeat it. Glad we prevailed.

    It previously was permit-less legal for concealed carry outside city limits for all over 18. Now it has changed to only Idaho residents 21 or older. But, added permit-less inside city limits carry to Idaho residents 21 and older. Non residents must have a permit in possession.

    So it seems one step forward and two back.
    You are spot on. I would like to add that 18 to 20 year olds can now get a ccw as the new law changed it from may issue to shall issue.

    Most important of all, Open Carry has not been infringed upon in any way even for 18 to 20 year olds.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    so everyone is excited for CCarriers not having a permit, except those > 18 yo AND those lucky Idaho citizens who get to leave the state and want to take their favorite handgun along...

    sorry that was as excited as i get...

    oh wait...forgot the common mantra...WE WILL DO BETTER NEXT YEAR!!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    The pendulum that swings dramatically in our favor can quickly swing just as dramatically against us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sota View Post
    The pendulum that swings dramatically in our favor can quickly swing just as dramatically against us.
    Don't see that there has been a dramatic/sudden change in direction, but it has been progressing steadily. We are pleased - still more work to be done though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so everyone is excited for CCarriers not having a permit, except those > 18 yo AND those lucky Idaho citizens who get to leave the state and want to take their favorite handgun along...

    sorry that was as excited as i get...

    oh wait...forgot the common mantra...WE WILL DO BETTER NEXT YEAR!!

    ipse
    Always with the negative waves



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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    Always with the negative waves


    lol So true.

    Solus, progress is progress, no matter if it's an inch or a mile. As much damage that has been done, we can't restore it all at once.
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    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't see that there has been a dramatic/sudden change in direction, but it has been progressing steadily. We are pleased - still more work to be done though.
    Sorry, that was what I was trying to imply. While I of course would love to wake up tomorrow in a world where Constitutional Carry was once again the Law of the Land throughout the country, I recognize that such a sweeping and drastic change implemented quickly would mean that it could swing back just as fast. As much as it pains me, it's better to make small moves. Revolution has an annoying tendency of breeding more revolution shortly there after, and all that achieves is chaos and destruction.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post

    Non residents must have a permit in possession.

    So it seems one step forward and two back.
    Isn't this an equal protection violation?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    Always with the negative waves
    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    lol So true.

    Solus, progress is progress, no matter if it's an inch or a mile. As much damage that has been done, we can't restore it all at once.
    negative waves ~ sorry viewing reality w/o the rose colored glasses as well as manifesting a projection leading to false rationalization that progress is progress...

    back to my original statement that you an others are being cranky over...

    someone please tell me....what did the ID citizens who are OC'ers gain causing anybody to celebrate, especially as i am on an open carry forum...i'll wait....

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    negative waves ~ sorry viewing reality w/o the rose colored glasses as well as manifesting a projection leading to false rationalization that progress is progress...

    back to my original statement that you an others are being cranky over...

    someone please tell me....what did the ID citizens who are OC'ers gain causing anybody to celebrate, especially as i am on an open carry forum...i'll wait....

    ipse
    Because if a resident of Idaho is open carrying without a carry permit, and their shirt or jacket covers up their pistol for one reason or another. When this law goes in effect, they won't end up in jail for a year, pay a fine and end up with a misdemeanor in their record.




    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...laws-idaho.htm


    "Penalties for Gun Carry Violations

    It is a misdemeanor to carry a concealed handgun in Idaho without a license. (Id. Code Ann. § 18-3302(14).) Penalties include a fine, up to one year in jail, or both "



    Regarding the point that those who are 18- 20 years old still be required to have a permit in Idaho,,,should consider themselves lucky. In some states they cannot can't get even get a carry permit until they reach 21.

    Some states, like Oklahoma are trying to do away with needing a permit in order to open carry.

    Some states like New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii it is IMPOSSIBLE for a resident to get a carry permit of any type unless they have some absolute justifiable need and can prove it in a court of law in front of judge and even then most of those get denied.

    Even though this is an open carry forum, concealed carry will still be talked about regardless. The difference between open and concealed carry is a thin piece of cloth. That thin piece of cloth does not make the pistol shoot stronger, shoot farther or shoot faster.

    That thin piece of cloth now makes the wearer subject to misdemeanors, fines or jail time unless they have the permission slip from the state . And paid the application and mandated training fees (depending on the state), gave out personal information to the state, gave their photos, and their fingerprints (in some states) and subject themselves to automatic monthly background checks by the state ...like Kentucky does.


    Again, the difference between open and concealed carry is a thin piece of cloth.

    The difference between a year in jail (or more) is a ..... thin piece of cloth....unless you have the 'permission slip'.

    In an ideal world everyone should be able to open carry and carry concealed without requiring a carry permit. But we are not there...yet. There are three states where residents just wish they had some kind of shall issue carry permit system in place.

    Idaho in some ways was a bigger deal than West Virginia , because in Idaho the governor actually signed the bill while thumbing his nose at Bloomberg's well funded "Mom's Demand" groups.
    Last edited by Midwest; 03-28-2016 at 07:46 AM.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    snipp...://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/open-and-concealed-gun-carry-laws-idaho.htm

    "Penalties for Gun Carry Violations

    It is a misdemeanor to carry a concealed handgun in Idaho without a license. (Id. Code Ann. § 18-3302(14).) Penalties include a fine, up to one year in jail, or both "


    Regarding the point that those who are 18- 20 years old still be required to have a permit in Idaho,,,should consider themselves lucky. In some states they cannot can't get even get a carry permit until they reach 21.
    first, the term UP TO is a premise not the mandatory sentence...

    second, since you mentioned half the states in the union i felt it apropos to mention...in NC those >18 may OC w/o a permit!!!

    keep being excited...if it makes you feel better...

    sigh

    ipse

    added: from your nationally produced cite, quote: Adults may purchase and openly carry handguns without a permit. unquote.
    Last edited by solus; 03-28-2016 at 11:37 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Congrats ID, getting closer.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Greg Pruett of the Idaho Second Amendment Alliance was on www.580kido.com (AM radio) this morning at 7:30 and clarified that if you are not a resident of Idaho you only need a concealed carry permit inside city limits if you carry concealed. It appears that there are no changes to concealed carry outside city limits for non residents and 18-20 year old

    Remember, Idaho accepts any concealed license from any state or legal authority such as a court.

    I haven't gone over the changes yet, but here's a link to the full text of the bill.


    https://www.legislature.idaho.gov/le...2016/S1389.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer

    Non residents must have a permit in possession.

    So it seems one step forward and two back.
    Isn't this an equal protection violation?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Isn't this an equal protection violation?
    Absolutely, it is an equal protection violation! Litigation on this is sorely needed.
    Last edited by OC4me; 03-28-2016 at 03:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ...in NC those >18 may OC w/o a permit!!!
    As can they in ID. Younger kids may OC long guns in ID with written permission from a parent (down to 14 IIRC).

    None of this changed with the new law that I know of.

    I have WA and ID permits and will keep them current for various reasons but if I jump out of the car to go for a walk around one of the city parks and don't feel the need to take my wallet I won't be criminalized. I don't see the down side, I don't get the negativity.
    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    Absolutely, it is an equal protection violation! Litigation on this is sorely needed.
    Not too soon I hope.

    For entirely irrational reasons, limiting permit-free carry to a State's own citizens, while requiring non-residents to have a permit to carry seems to make passing these bills easier. Wyoming passed permit-free carry for their own citizens in 2011, I believe. Let us remember that laws are passed (or repealed) by human beings, prone to irrational fears. Politics is the art of the possible.

    Ideally, after a couple of years, gun activists go back to the legislature and remove the limitation so that permit-free carry applies to everyone. And in the meantime, non-residents were not denied anything they didn't have previously.

    Incrementalism. A little gain here, a little gain there, while not giving up anything in return, results in significant gains over time.

    Premature litigation preventing limiting permit-free carry to a State's own citizens might make it more difficult to get permit-free carry passed in additional States. Rather than wasting money on that case, save the funds for areas where litigation is required to make gains we can't get any other way.

    I believe nine States now have permit free carry to one extent or another. The higher that number gets the more likely the courts take notice of it as they decide future cases about the extent of what the 2nd amendment protects.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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