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self-defense actions academic study; Oregon v Washington after Delgado

zaitz

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In terms of the practical effects . . . I am not sure if you are aware of these things, but in the 1984 decision of state v Delgado, the Oregon state Supreme court basically legalized all knife open-carry for Oregon.

Oregon Crime Rates 1960 - 2014
Oregon crime statistics, Oregon , Oregon rape, Oregon murder, Oregon property crime, Oregon crime index, Oregon ...
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/orcrime.htm

Washington Crime Rates 1960 - 2014

Washington Crime Rates 1960 - 2014
Washington crime statistics, Washington , Washington rape, Washington murder, Washington property crime, Washing...
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/wacrime.htm

Kleck and Tart did an analysis of the data from the National Crime victimization surveys from 1992 to 2002.
Kleck analyzed the various possible self-protective actions, their absence or the absence of any self-protective action taking place during a rape, attempted rape and other sexual assaults.

The report online says

"This document is a research report submitted to the U.S. Department of Justice. This report has not been published by the Department. Opinions or points of view expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the official position or policies of the U.S. Department of Justice."
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/211201.pdf

The Kleck study may be found at this url
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/211201.pdf

It was paid for with a grant by the DoJ and afterwards, to the present apparently, not published by the DoJ. However, in the ideal of providing "better customer service," the NCJRS has placed the study results on the web.

It seems however likely, that, although the numbers of those who took the actions of attacking with a weapon or brandishing a weapon are fewer than ten in the study, the dramatic difference in rape subsequent to taking the self-protective action of gun or other weapon brandishing or use compared to say, screaming, is due to the use or threatened use of the weapon.
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
I've worn an airsoft in a holster while walking for an hour and I did not wish to do it further because of the weight. Some people wearing firearms likewise don't like it because of the weight. Weight, liability from a wrongful or misplaced shot and creating apprehension in the minds of others are factors that sometimes lead people to not carry firearms.
Quite a wall of text there - many won't take the time to read it all.

Carrying an airsoft? Don't see that as a really good alternative/option.

As for me, I'll bear the load, strive to minimize the liability, and hope to seriously deter a BG from proceeding against me.......and my very real 1911.
 

OC Freedom

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Quite a wall of text there - many won't take the time to read it all.

Carrying an airsoft? Don't see that as a really good alternative/option.

As for me, I'll bear the load, strive to minimize the liability, and hope to seriously deter a BG from proceeding against me.......and my very real 1911.

+1
 

solus

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Z...

what is the purpose of your latest rant there doesn't appear to be a beginning nor an end...just a continuous tirade about something...

i'll look it over after the ham is finished...

ipse
 

zaitz

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Quite a wall of text there - many won't take the time to read it all.

Carrying an airsoft? Don't see that as a really good alternative/option.

As for me, I'll bear the load, strive to minimize the liability, and hope to seriously deter a BG from proceeding against me.......and my very real 1911.

what is your 1911, if I may ask?
 

zaitz

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Z...

what is the purpose of your latest rant there doesn't appear to be a beginning nor an end...just a continuous tirade about something...

i'll look it over after the ham is finished...

ipse

1) to discuss the comparative crime rates of Oregon with other states with knife laws
and
2) to discuss the success rates of various forms of self-protective actions in the cases of rape.
 

davidmcbeth

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Quite a wall of text there - many won't take the time to read it all.

Carrying an airsoft? Don't see that as a really good alternative/option.

As for me, I'll bear the load, strive to minimize the liability, and hope to seriously deter a BG from proceeding against me.......and my very real 1911.

Wall of text or whatever, the writings do do affect our rights.

Why do people want to spit out stats when stats are not relevant?

I guess people do like to argue against others' pleading stats...however, in respect to arguing about a right, stats are not needed to prevail. Indeed the stats are irrelevant.

So what if guns and OC result in a net gain of the saving of 1 million people ? Does not matter.

And what if it results in a net loss of 1 million lives? Again, does not matter.

Want to play the stats game with an anti when one comes up and starts the "guns kill" mantra? Tell them this (true or not) : When I was in the military I killed many including many children, elderly, and handicapped people. I did not get reprimanded by our government but just the opposite - I got medals and commendations and have been called a "hero". So don't think the government cares about the lives of children or anyone else ~ remember this is the same government who ordered me to kill children. [I assure you that those people spouting stats in your face will discontinue doing so]. What you tell them would be pretty much true as well.
 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

Quite a wall of text there - many won't take the time to read it all.

Carrying an airsoft? Don't see that as a really good alternative/option.

As for me, I'll bear the load, strive to minimize the liability, and hope to seriously deter a BG from proceeding against me.......and my very real 1911.
what is your 1911, if I may ask?
It is my EDC, my friend and constant companion, my ballast. You do know what a 1911 is - right?

Are you asking me for the complete nomenclature including modifications? Seems off topic, but if you really want to know send me a PM.
 

zaitz

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It is my EDC, my friend and constant companion, my ballast. You do know what a 1911 is - right?

Are you asking me for the complete nomenclature including modifications? Seems off topic, but if you really want to know send me a PM.

I do not know the firearms well enough to have known that 1911 would mean a colt pistol.

when I see 1611, I figure KJV authorized version . . . but I did not know that 1911 would mean a pistol!

z
 

Grapeshot

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I do not know the firearms well enough to have known that 1911 would mean a colt pistol.

when I see 1611, I figure KJV authorized version . . . but I did not know that 1911 would mean a pistol!

z

You really must get out more.

The 1911 .45acp, designed by John Moses Browning, is arguably the most well known/famous semi-auto pistol to have ever graced the hand of man. Lo these many years, many firms have manufactured his design - it is not exclusive to Colt.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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You really must get out more.

The 1911 .45acp, designed by John Moses Browning, is arguably the most well known/famous semi-auto pistol to have ever graced the hand of man. Lo these many years, many firms have manufactured his design - it is not exclusive to Colt.

Well one could argue that the Luger is but the 1911 is right next to it.
 

OC for ME

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Luger P08, pretty, sophisticated, aristocratic to be sure.

The Walther P38 was the preferred sidearm for the fatherland due to its ease of manufacture, low cost to manufacture and double action.
 

OC for ME

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Ya coulda asked zaits to PM you to get a explanation. You start the OT then chide us to get back on topic...OK.

All who used or brandished weapons were not raped.
OK...good.

Because the numbers of those using a gun or a non-gun weapon are fewer than 10 in rape cases, Kleck is unwilling to assign statistical significance to the fact that none of them were raped or suffered serious injury after brandishing their weapon in the process of the rape attempt.
Typical pencil neck. 100% ... 100%, of those girls who woulda been raped except for their using a weapon that stopped the perp.

I'm fairly confident that 100% of the time a lethal weapon is used to deter a rape it will deter a rape based on Kleck's data. I'll betcha those girls who deterred their rape would agree as well.

Could there be a fair use issue with the op?
 

zaitz

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Ya coulda asked zaits to PM you to get a explanation. You start the OT then chide us to get back on topic...OK.

OK...good.

Typical pencil neck. 100% ... 100%, of those girls who woulda been raped except for their using a weapon that stopped the perp.

I'm fairly confident that 100% of the time a lethal weapon is used to deter a rape it will deter a rape based on Kleck's data. I'll betcha those girls who deterred their rape would agree as well.

Could there be a fair use issue with the op?

the study by Kleck was paid for by the Dept of Justice, which means, you and me as taxpayers. The NCJRS then decided not to formally publish the thing in print but to put the study research and conlusions online only, for the sake of customer service and the education of the public.

"We" paid for the study and Kleck happens to believe that weapons use or brandishing is effective in stopping or detering a lot of crimes. His research on other topics was quoted by the Supreme court in the Heller decision.

Kleck doesn't seem to own the copyright . . .

This report has not been published by the U.S. Department of Justice.

To provide better customer service, NCJRS has made this Federally funded
grant final report available electronically in addition to
traditional paper copies.

I could be wrong, but I have a suspicion that the gov does not sue "you" for quoting the reports it pays for and publishes for public education, if "your" use of it is for public education. There are four main criteria in helping to determine if a use is fair use. One of them is the use you are putting to the material you are using, whether educational, commercial or other. Another of them is whether or not you or I reduce the economic sale value of the copyrighted work which is being excerpted or used in some way.

Two of two in my favor . . . in terms of fair use.

z
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--

Two of two in my favor . . . in terms of fair use.
There is no vote on FUQs. Simply include the link - end of story.

Rule #11, like the rest of the rules, has been instituted by the owners of this private property.

In registering as a user here, one agrees to abide by the rules.
 

zaitz

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There is no vote on FUQs. Simply include the link - end of story.

Rule #11, like the rest of the rules, has been instituted by the owners of this private property.

In registering as a user here, one agrees to abide by the rules.

I assume you are referring to this link
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/211201.pdf

which is shown twice in the opening post.

It appears that I was in compliance with the rules regarding fair use . . . and one of your members raised a question about my conduct . . .

and someone could have but perhaps declined to let him know that my links to the source were sufficient to be in compliance with the rules.

Is that correct?
 
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zaitz

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I assume you are referring to this link
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/211201.pdf

which is shown twice in the opening post.

It appears that I was in compliance with the rules regarding fair use . . . and one of your members raised a question about my conduct . . .

and someone could have but perhaps declined to let him know that my links to the source were sufficient to be in compliance with the rules.

Is that correct?

So . . .

I write a post that complies with the rule or the rules and with federal copyright law . . .

and some other fellow who posts raises the implication that I might be disobeying the rule or federal copyright law . . .

and the rest of you folks respond by ?
 

Grapeshot

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So . . .

I write a post that complies with the rule or the rules and with federal copyright law . . .

and some other fellow who posts raises the implication that I might be disobeying the rule or federal copyright law . . .

and the rest of you folks respond by ?
Federal copyright law is not the only consideration. Overly long posts play a part too.

A review of the material was made and a decision rendered, which as previously mentioned is not subject to a vote. Yet you continue to object for no good purpose - the information is still available.

Suggest that you not belabor the point further.
 

OC for ME

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So . . .

I write a post that complies with the rule or the rules and with federal copyright law . . .

and some other fellow who posts raises the implication that I might be disobeying the rule or federal copyright law . . .

and the rest of you folks respond by ?
Fair Use
that I referred to was clearly...because Grapeshot informed you as well...a real estate inquiry, not a copy right inquiry. RIF!
 
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