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Thread: Children and Self-Defense

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    Children and Self-Defense

    Ok....so its been known to me, for some time that society views have greatly changed. Though the 1800s and 1950s were ok with everyone open carrying arms and even children bringing firearms to school or such.....since Clintons era, it seems defense and the Second Amendment has gone downhill, seemingly demonized, with the birth of MDA and other fear mongers and sensitized idiots. First off, I have to add the human race WAS NOT created to have fear-based or emotion-based thinking/logic. Those types of people are more akin to animals, since animals think in fear and instinct.

    The human race was created to have sound, reason and logic based thinking and arguments. Which is one of the main reasons we are above animals in mentality and intelligence levels.

    Now, obviously, my argument is clear. I am for educating children and teenagers about arms and proper defense, gun handling and such.

    I do not believe it is fair that schools and college campuses ban all arms. The other issue is the rise in sensitizing and fear mongering. MDA and others endorse the message that Arms, including Firearms cannot be seen in the hands of average citizens and that only those in uniform, such as Police, Military and Security personnel should be armed. Then again, there is also the existing concern that due to Clinton, the Military is not allowed to be armed on their own installations and bases. This is a major concern, see Fort Hood and such.

    Obliviously, I am advocating reasonable arms. Nothing extreme. No sniper rifles, RPG-7s and such. Rather, handguns, knives, MACE, Sabre Defense Spray, Tasers, revolvers, batons, etc.

    Yes, there is the concern of age and the age where a child begins to be subjected to Arms depends on their family. I, for one, do not think it is wise to subject children under the age of 10 or 12 with Arms.

    I think we have a lot of work ahead of us, starting with the ''purge'' of the fear mongers, via shipping them out of the US if they do not like the 2nd amendment or simply repeated desensitization. Much like you would do a horse, with repeated exposure to an activity. Sooner or later, the fear mongers will get used to it and quit being so damn scared and whiny.

    Lastly, Open Carry has existed far before Open Carry was even a thing. The Celtic Queen, Boudicca and other historical legends or figures were armed and open carried.

    Concealed Carry really does not exist for any other purpose but for the government to allow or deny a right, to pacify fear mongers and to generate State Revenue.

    Nowhere in the second amendment does it say conceal or hide arms.

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    Baseless claptrap
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Shotgun approach to much of our thinking here.

    Children 8yo - many of us here were competing at that age (Jr NRA), others were putting meat on the table. We carried fixed blades when in the field/woods and had pocket knives in school.

    OTOH - I can't advocate "purging" as a solution - just not my way. Neutering their arguments with facts and presenting a positive image works well IMHO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Traditional shooting sports. Meaning skeet/trap, sporting clays. not many kids will sign up due to the cost of equipment. In MO guns on campus are not verboten if used for school sanctioned sporting events. Which includes safety training for popular firearms.

    Handguns, shotguns, bolt-action rifles.

    Sporting rifles such as those based on military platforms...after we get the previously mentioned firearms back in high skrooler pick-up trucks.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Patriot, what is this prattled rant you are on about...

    quote: ....so its been known to me...Those types of people are more akin to animals,... ...obviously, my argument is clear. I do not believe it is fair...

    The Celtic Queen, Boudicca and other historical legends or figures... unquote.

    really?

    ipse
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    Some people just like to hear themselves.
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    Sighs. Ok....so the need to further explain myself arises.

    First off, this is one example by what I mean by fear mongers and sensitized idiots being akin to animals in their fear-based/emotion-based thinking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gHNSxe7TK0

    4:42

    Not to mention the freaking out at the start, trying to violate the 1st amendment.

    Fear mongers seem to have an inverted or backwards way of thinking. No, you don't have privacy in a public place, such as seen in the video.

    Furthermore, look at how things were BCE, The 1800s and even 1950s. I mentioned Boudicca for a reason. Boudicca open carried her sword before open carry was even a thing.

    Open Carry generally includes all legal and reasonable arms. Obviously, swords and medieval arms aren't really open carried and as such, there are a number of other defense options that are better accepted in the 21st century.

    That said, the sensitized idiots and fear mongers are the issue in this country.

    The only two choices are to continue open carrying until they get over their unrealistic fear, become desensitized and revert to the logic and reason they are meant to think with.

    The whole ''he has a gun or knife and will kill us all.'' or the ''guns are scary.'' argument seriously has to go.

    I have seen a number of sheathed knives and holstered firearms in my life and whats my thought? Is there any sign of an act of aggression? Are they behaving erratically? Do they have their hand constantly on the knife or handgun/revolver? If the answer is no to all of the above, then there is NO NEED to fear that person. Seriously.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    PATRIOT88, welcome to the real world. You know that freedom is eternal vigilance. You should have started with "rant on" and finished with "rant off" and some of us could have stood back and just observed. I do appreciate you not screaming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    ... I have seen a number of sheathed knives and holstered firearms in my life and whats my thought? ...
    Me, nice (or ugly/cheap) knife, same with the gat.

    "Hickree" North Kackalacky must be infested with "sensitized idiots and fear mongers"...contrary to my past personal experiences...though, I have not been to Hickree lo these many years. Maybe it has become infested with "sensitized idiots and fear mongers" it is near Charlutte after all.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I personally think, that it may be a result of my underestimating. Initially, when I arrived here last year, I did not think there would be any fear mongers or such, NC being the South. It seemed I was wrong and even NC has certain parts/people that are too stupid to think for themselves and stricken with the ignorance pandemic induced by MDA.

    I am just glad those days are behind me, hated when people exaggerated my actions and called police on me. Well, now I know what restaurants to avoid and not patronize. No defense=No business. Other patriots and open carriers share my mindset.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    I personally think, that it may be a result of my underestimating. Initially, when I arrived here last year, I did not think there would be any fear mongers or such, NC being the South. It seemed I was wrong and even NC has certain parts/people that are too stupid to think for themselves and stricken with the ignorance pandemic induced by MDA.

    I am just glad those days are behind me, hated when people exaggerated my actions and called police on me. Well, now I know what restaurants to avoid and not patronize. No defense=No business. Other patriots and open carriers share my mindset.
    your last post says a lot...

    it sounds like you left a locale where you believed you were treated inappropriately...

    you state the same experience is going where 'people exaggerated my actions''called the police on me'...

    have you begun to realize the commonality of these two environments where you have and currently reside?

    just saying

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Define sniper rifle.

    I have a rifle used by the Russians as a sniper rifle.

    Some early American sniper rifles were hunting rifles

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    To my knowledge, a sniper rifle is any rifle with a full powered rifle round, scope that is capable of .25-1.5 MOA and can effectively hit atleast 600 meters.

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    To my knowledge, a sniper rifle is any rifle with a full powered rifle round, scope that is capable of .25-1.5 MOA and can effectively hit atleast 600 meters.


    I get what you are saying, but the rifle is only capable of what the shooter can achieve.

    I have a 70's model Savage in 30.06 that can easily meet the criteria you define dependent on the shooter.

    Not trying to be nitpicky just trying to qualify your statement.


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    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Grapeshot, not sure about your experiences with sensitized idiots, but from my experiences and even my perspective and informed factual basis from this video below, its that sensitized idiots/fear mongers will not listen to or accept logic, reality and reason.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gHNSxe7TK0

    What can be do about sensitized idiots, like the ones in the video, that will not listen to logic, facts and reality? Cannot educate someone that will not listen.

    In a way, its like trying to explain to a sheltered pacifist how the world really is and that they will need to fight to defend their life at one point in their life.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    Grapeshot, not sure about your experiences with sensitized idiots, but from my experiences and even my perspective and informed factual basis from this video below, its that sensitized idiots/fear mongers will not listen to or accept logic, reality and reason.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gHNSxe7TK0

    What can be do about sensitized idiots, like the ones in the video, that will not listen to logic, facts and reality? Cannot educate someone that will not listen.

    In a way, its like trying to explain to a sheltered pacifist how the world really is and that they will need to fight to defend their life at one point in their life.
    Been there, done that...at our General Assembly, universities, parks, meet-n-greets, etc. I OC virtually 24/7 and interact with a lot of people.

    You're right - the rabid anti will not change their opinion regardless of the evidence. Still, I will at times converse with them, especially if there are others of a more open mind or the media within earshot. When they become too much to bear, I simply smile and tell them to have a nice day.

    Prefer to spend my time educating the fence sitters whenever and wherever possible. Many (most?) of them will listen with a more open mind. Facts, logic, and a friendly attitude will win friends. It's that "while going about our daily routine" thing.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-29-2016 at 06:47 PM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    your last post says a lot...

    it sounds like you left a locale where you believed you were treated inappropriately...

    you state the same experience is going where 'people exaggerated my actions''called the police on me'...

    have you begun to realize the commonality of these two environments where you have and currently reside?

    just saying

    ipse
    Me thinks that if the OP were to pass by a mirror and stop to take a good, hard look, he may discover the origins of the reactions from his perceived "sensitized idiots"

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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    To my knowledge, a sniper rifle is any rifle with a full powered rifle round, scope that is capable of .25-1.5 MOA and can effectively hit atleast 600 meters.
    My friend grouped 1.25" at 500 yards with a pistol.

    So that pistol would be a sniper rifle?

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Been there, done that...at our General Assembly, universities, parks, meet-n-greets, etc. I OC virtually 24/7 and interact with a lot of people.

    You're right - the rabid anti will not change their opinion regardless of the evidence. Still, I will at times converse with them, especially if there are others of a more open mind or the media within earshot. When they become too much to bear, I simply smile and tell them to have a nice day.

    Prefer to spend my time educating the fence sitters whenever and wherever possible. Many (most?) of them will listen with a more open mind. Facts, logic, and a friendly attitude will win friends. It's that "while going about our daily routine" thing.
    Sometimes it isn't the person who is in front of you ranting that is important but is how those all around listening respond to your polite, reasoned, and friendly responses. One mind and one heart at a time.

    Keep up the good work Grape.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    My friend grouped 1.25" at 500 yards with a pistol.

    So that pistol would be a sniper rifle?

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    No she didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    Me thinks that if the OP were to pass by a mirror and stop to take a good, hard look, he may discover the origins of the reactions from his perceived "sensitized idiots"
    There is nothing to look at. Its simple. I know how I act and present myself and if a person or business is not going to let me be myself in my adamant beliefs just because of a sheathed knife or such, then they don't deserve business from any pro-2nd amendment advocate.

    There is ZERO cause for concern when anyone open carries properly with a sheath or holster with retension straps.

    Honestly, I fail to see any logical basis to fear me. Judge me on my actions while I am in your business, not what I carry.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    There is nothing to look at. Its simple. I know how I act and present myself and if a person or business is not going to let me be myself in my adamant beliefs just because of a sheathed knife or such, then they don't deserve business from any pro-2nd amendment advocate.

    There is ZERO cause for concern when anyone open carries properly with a sheath or holster with retension straps.

    Honestly, I fail to see any logical basis to fear me. Judge me on my actions while I am in your business, not what I carry.
    I do not judge folks by what they carry. I judge folks by how they carry themselves.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 View Post
    There is nothing to look at. Its simple. I know how I act and present myself and if a person or business is not going to let me be myself in my adamant beliefs just because of a sheathed knife or such, then they don't deserve business from any pro-2nd amendment advocate.

    There is ZERO cause for concern when anyone open carries properly with a sheath or holster with retension straps.

    Honestly, I fail to see any logical basis to fear me. Judge me on my actions while I am in your business, not what I carry.

    You probably look and act like a weirdo. Normal people don't open carry sheathed fixed blade knives.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PATRIOT88 There is nothing to look at. Its simple. I know how I act and present myself and if a person or business is not going to let me be myself in my adamant beliefs just because of a sheathed knife or such, then they don't deserve business from any pro-2nd amendment advocate.

    There is ZERO cause for concern when anyone open carries properly with a sheath or holster with retension straps.

    Honestly, I fail to see any logical basis to fear me. Judge me on my actions while I am in your business, not what I carry.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    You probably look and act like a weirdo. Normal people don't open carry sheathed fixed blade knives.
    To the contrary, fixed blade knives are routine for some, especially while in the woods or hunting. Also I do not recall the Second Amendment addressing knives as being abnormal.

    Mr CDT COX your post too strongly represents a personal insult - a violation of forum rules.

    We need to get back on topic for this thread - too much wandering/off topic.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-29-2016 at 08:14 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Have a choice between carrying fixed or folding blade? Fixed blade better. IMO . Choose non-folding is my advice.

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