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Thread: Looking for definition of Concealed Carry

  1. #1
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    Looking for definition of Concealed Carry

    With OC now a law I am not as worried about printing or exposing my sidearm inadvertently except where a 30.07 sign exists. I am trying to find the definition of Concealed but I could not seem to locate it looking at the law. Am I missing it?

    Thanks


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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Uh..... Let me see.....if I can't tell you got it......its concealed.

    Why would you give your money to an establishment that don't want you to protect yourself while you're there?
    Last edited by rodbender; 03-31-2016 at 12:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsIAm View Post
    With OC now a law I am not as worried about printing or exposing my sidearm inadvertently except where a 30.07 sign exists. I am trying to find the definition of Concealed but I could not seem to locate it looking at the law. Am I missing it?

    Thanks


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    You'll need to take a trip down to the law library and look up some cases and go down to the capitol bldg. and read the various committees and general assembly debates relating to the various laws related to this issue to get an inkling of what you are looking for.

    "Concealed" may or may not mean "hidden 100% of time" ....

    Unless someone else has anything of an authority to reference.

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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsIAm View Post
    With OC now a law I am not as worried about printing or exposing my sidearm inadvertently except where a 30.07 sign exists. I am trying to find the definition of Concealed but I could not seem to locate it looking at the law. Am I missing it?

    Thanks

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    Not discernible to the casual observer

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I don't think you're missing it. I don't think that the terms "open" or "concealed" are defined for 30.06 or 30.07, unless I'm missing it too. However, under the unlawful carry by license holder section, http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u....46.htm#46.035, they don't use the term concealed but instead say and have said it's a violation to "intentionally display the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place." I think that most have considered that to be the guide on what is concealed or not. I am not a lawyer but, pretty much an opaque material covering the surface of the handgun, so that no part of the handgun itself is intentionally visible, I would think, should be considered concealing.

    I would not worry about general, normal printing at all.

    Even very obvious printing was a common thing, at least among activists, before open carry passed, and at that time had to be considered concealed carry to be legal. I don't recall any instances of activists being hassled over printing or using form-fitting coverings.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    checking the title of this site...

    yepper still says OPEN Carry across the banner...

    ipse
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    “Intentionally displays”??? People don't understand that your intention is irrelevant. Your intention is determined by the court or jury. Mens rea is only a figment of your imagination.

    When a law has to insert examples of what the law means then the law is void for vagueness in the common persons' view. But, not in the courts eyes. Courts will always say “we think” the average person would understand.

    Sec. 46.035 says to me that if I intentionally step on a crack I break my mothers back. But, stepping on the crack is vague because we all know that you don't actually have to step on the crack. If it appears that we think your intention was to stepped on the crack even though you didn't, you stepped on the crack. Unless you were wearing your mother's army boots. But, that's another crime for another day.

    And the politicians can't understand why the people are upset.

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    Yea I saw that intentional comment somewhere. Kinda like COL says, who determines intent? The sad person who calls the cop on you or the cop that shows up? If they are going to have it, it should be defined but that would be asking too much. Guess I will go with "it is covered". If I have a "rocket in my pocket", it isn't exposing myself right? [emoji12]


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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    While the criminality of it has been properly removed, do keep in mind the manners involved. If you are going to conceal, please do so properly.

    People are not alarmed by a sidearm carried openly, but spying a sloppily concealed pistol is a different matter. It sparks alarm, as it is a natural instinct that only someone with bad intentions would conceal their weapon. Modern society has been working against that natural instinct, but it still remains.

    It's not that hard to conceal properly. If you don't care that people see it, then just openly carry and be proud of it. (And more comfortable to boot!)
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    Thanks. The question was in reference to places not allowing open carry. Yes, I know this site is called opencarry.org.....


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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsIAm View Post
    Thanks. The question was in reference to places not allowing open carry. Yes, I know this site is called opencarry.org.....


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    If the answer is there is no answer then yes


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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    While the criminality of it has been properly removed, do keep in mind the manners involved. If you are going to conceal, please do so properly.

    People are not alarmed by a sidearm carried openly, but spying a sloppily concealed pistol is a different matter. It sparks alarm, as it is a natural instinct that only someone with bad intentions would conceal their weapon. Modern society has been working against that natural instinct, but it still remains.

    It's not that hard to conceal properly. If you don't care that people see it, then just openly carry and be proud of it. (And more comfortable to boot!)
    Ehh, may be true in other states, but I don't think it has to be true here. Actually I don't think it's true now, and I don't think it'll become true here unless we foster that attitude by holding it ourselves. I think 'lazy conceal' became pretty common and popular leading up to open carry passing and taking effect, especially since they pushed the effective date out so far. OWB holsters hanging out from jackets (holster showing, but not the gun), obvious printing (even wearing under armor and the like, skin tight), and those handgun socks with the pictures of handguns printed on them (lol)... I don't think that any of these things caused any more alarm than straight up OCing after OC took effect. In some cases, here in Texas, you might actually find lazy CC MORE tolerated by some folks than full OC...
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  14. #14
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    “Intentionally displays”??? People don't understand that your intention is irrelevant. Your intention is determined by the court or jury. Mens rea is only a figment of your imagination.

    When a law has to insert examples of what the law means then the law is void for vagueness in the common persons' view. But, not in the courts eyes. Courts will always say “we think” the average person would understand.

    Sec. 46.035 says to me that if I intentionally step on a crack I break my mothers back. But, stepping on the crack is vague because we all know that you don't actually have to step on the crack. If it appears that we think your intention was to stepped on the crack even though you didn't, you stepped on the crack. Unless you were wearing your mother's army boots. But, that's another crime for another day.

    And the politicians can't understand why the people are upset.
    It struck me as odd the first time I saw "intentionally" and "knowingly," etc as part of a charge for a petty crime which could have easily been unknown and unintentional. How did they intend to prove intent and knowledge? They didn't... Didn't even attempt to prove it, even though it was part of the accusation. It was almost like they were trying to convince the person they were accusing, or pretending that they can read minds and therefore their accusations are infallible.
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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I believe it will take some time - years actually - for people across the board to adjust to where they are able to view unapologetic open carry as custom or benign as a person carrying an umbrella.

    In the meantime...how I present myself...and my holstered handgun...and when and where I decide to openly carry is going to matter.

    Depending upon the environment and the clientele of a given business establishment or some public venue that I enter - I will decide how I will carry.

    After all is said and done...I think that is what this change in Texas law was all about.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 04-02-2016 at 05:11 PM.

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