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Thread: the law and admin code re weapons on college campuses

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    the law and admin code re weapons on college campuses

    What laws or codes forbid the possession or carry of weapons concealed or unconcealed on the UW campus or others, if any?

    thanks!

    z

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    For the University of Washington, I found 1 WAC that covers firearms on campus: Chapter 478-124 WAC: General Conduct Code for the University of Washington.

    The passage pertaining to firearms states:
    (2) In order to assure those rights to all members of the university community and to maintain a peaceful atmosphere in which the university may continue to make its special contribution to society, the following types of conduct are hereby prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by the university which is used or set aside for university purposes, hereinafter referred to as the university campus: (e) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;
    As many facilities as UW has, this passage includes all campuses & facilities operated by the University of Washington including: Harborview Medical Center & other similar facilities. So UW, unless policies change, is a Weapon-free/Gun-free zone.

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    with few exceptions all unconstitutional and unlawful prohibitions are listed in RCW 9.41

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    That WAC only applies to students and staff. And even then only applies administratively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    For the University of Washington, I found 1 WAC that covers firearms on campus: Chapter 478-124 WAC: General Conduct Code for the University of Washington.

    The passage pertaining to firearms states:

    As many facilities as UW has, this passage includes all campuses & facilities operated by the University of Washington including: Harborview Medical Center & other similar facilities. So UW, unless policies change, is a Weapon-free/Gun-free zone.
    It seems to me that I or someone should find a way to sue them in federal court.

    They are created with tax dollars. Rapes and robberies occur on the campus. How can an institution be created with tax dollars and which is necessary or helpful to many members of the public to do well and survive in the modern world make attending classes in it dependent on not defending yourself with a weapon? It is not like the stadium in which everybody is metal-detected or searched or wanded before getting in.

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    I literally just looked them all up. There's probably a full page of search responses on them, each one varying in degree. I found that basically, they all prohibit them except for teaching purposes, and most have exclusions for CHL holders to leave it in their car. I think you're best off checking the particular campus.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    That WAC only applies to students and staff. And even then only applies administratively.
    What is Washington LAW on campus carry?

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    What is Washington LAW on campus carry?
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    Only the places listed in those 2 laws in the RCW are are locations in which one is legally prohibited from being in possession of a firearm. Nowhere in RCW does it state that colleges or universities are prohibited locations.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

    Only the places listed in those 2 laws in the RCW are are locations in which one is legally prohibited from being in possession of a firearm. Nowhere in RCW does it state that colleges or universities are prohibited locations.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    What is Washington LAW on campus carry?
    Grim posted the closest laws but there isn't actually a campus carry law. Therefore, following British Legal Tradition, it's legal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    Grim posted the closest laws but there isn't actually a campus carry law. Therefore, following British Legal Tradition, it's legal.
    a few months ago, there was in the news the story of a fellow with a firearm on a different university campus and he was asked to leave and told something like he would be trespassing if he returned, I think . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaitz View Post
    a few months ago, there was in the news the story of a fellow with a firearm on a different university campus and he was asked to leave and told something like he would be trespassing if he returned, I think . . .
    well, you are absolutely could have been told this or that and it might not have been a few months ago as well as he was carrying a knife, airsoft, or LG...if you found the 'news story' initially, then post the bloody cite as kinda mentioned in the forum rules. so members do not have to guess what you thought he might have been told and the currency of the 'news story'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaitz View Post
    a few months ago, there was in the news the story of a fellow with a firearm on a different university campus and he was asked to leave and told something like he would be trespassing if he returned, I think . . .
    The only thing I've heard specifically to the UW in recent news has been this:

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...at-uw-library/

    The man was arrested on a misdemeanor weapons violation, Rittereiser said. He has not been formally charged.
    No name given, no follow-up. News drops the story once they find out it's not a real gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaitz View Post
    a few months ago, there was in the news the story of a fellow with a firearm on a different university campus and he was asked to leave and told something like he would be trespassing if he returned, I think . . .
    Are public college campuses public in WA?

    For instance in Ohio, there are a number of Federal court decisions that say that the First Amendment applies to public college campuses.

    For example, check out University of Cincinnati Chapter of Young Americans for Liberty, et al, v. Gregory Williams, page 9 especially: http://tinyurl.com/ztd6s8n

    Also, check out the USSC decision in Pleasant Grove City, Utah et al v. Summum: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/08pdf/07-665.pdf
    Last edited by BB62; 04-11-2016 at 08:15 PM.

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    Some additional information to digest.


    RCW 28B.50.140
    Boards of trustees—Powers and duties.

    (as pertaining to the board of trustees appointed by the governor to each of the Washington state owned and operated PUBLIC COLLEGES)

    (13) Shall enforce the rules prescribed by the state board for community and technical colleges for the government of community and technical colleges, students and teachers, and adopt such rules and perform all other acts not inconsistent with law or rules of the state board for community and technical colleges as the board of trustees may in its discretion deem necessary or appropriate to the administration of college districts: PROVIDED, That such rules shall include, but not be limited to, rules relating to housing, scholarships, conduct at the various community and technical college facilities, and discipline: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That the board of trustees may suspend or expel from community and technical colleges students who refuse to obey any of the duly adopted rules;

    RCW 34.05.210
    Code and register—Publication and distribution—Omissions, removals, revisions—Judicial notice.

    (1)(a) The code reviser shall cause the Washington Administrative Code to be compiled, indexed by subject, and published. All current, permanently effective rules of each agency shall be published in the Washington Administrative Code. Compilations shall be supplemented or revised as often as necessary and at least annually in a form compatible with the main compilation.
    These 2 quotes alone, to the best of my research and knowledge not only prohibit the board of trustees from enacting any rules to ban lawfully carried firearms from public college campus', but also make any rule that is not specifically listed in that agency's section of the Washington Administrative Code, completely void and invalid. Meaning, that if the "agency" has a rule that is written down in some "policies and proceedures" book somewhere, but it is NOT listed in the WAC, it is void. And because any rule that bans lawfully carried and possessed firearms from the campus would be clearly "inconsistent" with established state law (RCW), it would also be in violation of the state constitution and additionally, the US constitution.

    Mind you, I have not even bothered to check to see what the policies are regarding state owned and operated "universities", but I have a suspicion that any such rules would also be considered to be void/invalid/unconstitutional if someone were to take the time and effort to step up and challenge such rules in court.
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    Regular Member Boomboy007's Avatar
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    Great research, Grim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Some additional information to digest.


    RCW 28B.50.140
    Boards of trustees—Powers and duties.

    (as pertaining to the board of trustees appointed by the governor to each of the Washington state owned and operated PUBLIC COLLEGES)




    RCW 34.05.210
    Code and register—Publication and distribution—Omissions, removals, revisions—Judicial notice.



    These 2 quotes alone, to the best of my research and knowledge not only prohibit the board of trustees from enacting any rules to ban lawfully carried firearms from public college campus', but also make any rule that is not specifically listed in that agency's section of the Washington Administrative Code, completely void and invalid. Meaning, that if the "agency" has a rule that is written down in some "policies and proceedures" book somewhere, but it is NOT listed in the WAC, it is void. And because any rule that bans lawfully carried and possessed firearms from the campus would be clearly "inconsistent" with established state law (RCW), it would also be in violation of the state constitution and additionally, the US constitution.

    Mind you, I have not even bothered to check to see what the policies are regarding state owned and operated "universities", but I have a suspicion that any such rules would also be considered to be void/invalid/unconstitutional if someone were to take the time and effort to step up and challenge such rules in court.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    The only thing I've heard specifically to the UW in recent news has been this:

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/...at-uw-library/



    No name given, no follow-up. News drops the story once they find out it's not a real gun.
    Yeah, everything I can find says he wasn't charged. Sounds like a case of , "make him look like a criminal and hope nobody asks any questions."
    Typical for a Seattle school.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Some additional information to digest.


    RCW 28B.50.140
    Boards of trustees—Powers and duties.

    (as pertaining to the board of trustees appointed by the governor to each of the Washington state owned and operated PUBLIC COLLEGES)




    RCW 34.05.210
    Code and register—Publication and distribution—Omissions, removals, revisions—Judicial notice.



    These 2 quotes alone, to the best of my research and knowledge not only prohibit the board of trustees from enacting any rules to ban lawfully carried firearms from public college campus', but also make any rule that is not specifically listed in that agency's section of the Washington Administrative Code, completely void and invalid. Meaning, that if the "agency" has a rule that is written down in some "policies and proceedures" book somewhere, but it is NOT listed in the WAC, it is void. And because any rule that bans lawfully carried and possessed firearms from the campus would be clearly "inconsistent" with established state law (RCW), it would also be in violation of the state constitution and additionally, the US constitution.

    Mind you, I have not even bothered to check to see what the policies are regarding state owned and operated "universities", but I have a suspicion that any such rules would also be considered to be void/invalid/unconstitutional if someone were to take the time and effort to step up and challenge such rules in court.
    Nice work, Grim.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Don't overlook the fact that WAC's are part of WA State's laws.

    ://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/
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    UW-related:
    I love the ironic wording of the policies...
    WAC 478-124-010Conduct on campus code—General policy.


    It is the policy of the University of Washington to support and promote each individual's right to express his views and opinions for or against actions or ideas in which he has an interest, to associate freely with others, and to assemble peacefully.
    The above rights exist in equal measure for each member of the university community. They exist regardless of the professional stature or rank of the individual and regardless of the degree of acceptability among others of the views or opinions advocated.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=478-124-020
    (1) In order to safeguard the right of every citizen to criticize and to seek meaningful change, each individual has an obligation to respect the rights of all members of the university community.(2) In order to assure those rights to all members of the university community and to maintain a peaceful atmosphere in which the university may continue to make its special contribution to society, the following types of conduct are hereby prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by the university which is used or set aside for university purposes, hereinafter referred to as the university campus:
    (e) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;


    We're here to respect all rights. Except the right to defense, etc.

    Elsewhere:
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.a...te=478-136-030
    (10) Within the limits of applicable laws, the University of Washington is committed to establishing and maintaining safe conditions for persons attending football games in Husky Stadium or other athletic events or concerts in university facilities. Accordingly, the rules enumerated below will apply to all such events and be strictly enforced.
    (a) The possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages or illegal drugs is prohibited, except for alcohol allowed under a permit or license as provided in WAC478-136-041. In addition to having the beverages or drugs confiscated, violators may be subject to university disciplinary action and/or legal proceedings, and removal from the events.
    (b) Air horns, glass bottles, cans, picnic baskets, bota bags, ice chests, and thermoses (in excess of two-quart capacity) are prohibited. Individuals possessing such will not be admitted to, or will be removed from, Husky Stadium or other athletic or concert facilities until the items have been stored temporarily at locations provided for that purpose or disposed of in some other manner.
    (c) Except for designated outdoor smoking sites, as provided in WAC 478-136-035, smoking is prohibited in all portions of all athletic stadia, including, but not limited to, the seating areas, public concourses, and enclosed and covered spaces.
    (d) All persons entering events in Husky Stadium or other athletic venues or events in other university auditoria or facilities shall be subject to having all containers, bags, backpacks, coolers, or similar items visually inspected. Security personnel shall first ask permission to visually inspect the item and advise the person that he/she may refuse. Persons who refuse to allow inspection shall be allowed to return the item to a vehicle or otherwise dispose of it, after which admission shall be allowed. Persons who refuse the visual inspection and refuse to dispose of the item shall be denied entry.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    We're here to respect all rights. Except the right to defense, etc.
    That's just it, they don't consider the right to self defense/right to keep and bear arms to actually be a right -- human, constitutional or otherwise. They consider it a mistake made by ignorant savages long in the past or at best an anachronism that needs to be got rid of now that we have civilization and all. The problem is that if we really were as civilized as that, the police would be out of work for lack of things to do and our prisons would be empty except for the custodial staff.
    Last edited by Difdi; 04-13-2016 at 10:43 PM.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    That's just it, they don't consider the right to self defense/right to keep and bear arms to actually be a right -- human, constitutional or otherwise. They consider it a mistake made by ignorant savages long in the past or at best an anachronism that needs to be got rid of now that we have civilization and all. The problem is that if we really were as civilized as that, the police would be out of work for lack of things to do and our prisons would be empty except for the custodial staff.
    It doesnt matter what they think. The right exists as per the 2A. Shall not be infringed is so simple a 6 year old can understand it. Trouble is most people choose not to understand it.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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