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Thread: Possibly, a first arrest for openly carrying in Texas

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Possibly, a first arrest for openly carrying in Texas


    Nothing more to go on, no names, cities, or anything else but I thought it interesting enough to post.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    You just heard about it on the grapevine?

    BTW - there have been arrests for OC before, but before the new law.

    One of the better known stories is of Army Master Sgt. C.J. Grisham:
    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...ing-rifle.html
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I get a broken image in the OP, no link to a story.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I think the first - arrest related to openly carrying a handgun in a holster since Jan 1 - has already happened... But I'll be anxious to know more about this mystery event. Please post more info as you know it.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You just heard about it on the grapevine?

    BTW - there have been arrests for OC before, but before the new law.

    One of the better known stories is of Army Master Sgt. C.J. Grisham:
    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...ing-rifle.html
    From what I can find this case is still in the court of appeals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I get a broken image in the OP, no link to a story.
    Same here, what should I be seeing?

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I never saw any image, broken or otherwise. Looks like OP might have tried hotlinking a photo from another forum, but the other forum requires login. Maybe download and upload here, assuming no copyright notice present?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I never saw any image, broken or otherwise. Looks like OP might have tried hotlinking a photo from another forum, but the other forum requires login. Maybe download and upload here, assuming no copyright notice present?
    Strange - the OP as viewed on my computer did not have a link, broken or otherwise. Was trying to figure out what you all were talking about.
    Possibly, a first arrest for openly carrying in Texas

    Nothing more to go on, no names, cities, or anything else but I thought it interesting enough to post.
    Then I quoted the OP and voilà, there was the broken image. You seem to have had the same problem initially. What gives?
    I understand that some pictures cannot be directly downloaded to OCDO or other sites, but they don't leave a broken link either. Then to have the broken image/link only to appear when quoting leaves me scratching my head.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The only one I found was this

    'Texan Arrested for Open Carrying Less Than Two Months After Open Carry Became Law'

    But there were come circumstances involved according to the article. It is not like the only thing he did was OC. He also held up a sign warning that there was a speed trap ahead. According to the article, he didn't give ID when he was asked to. He also was a pedestrian standing on a highway. While he did have a Florida permit, he didn't have a Texas one.

    Please note: I am NOT justifying what the police did, just reporting what the article said.

    https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2...ry-became-law/



    "Less than two months after a Texas law went into effect allowing citizens to open carry handguns, Texas police arrested a man for doing just that Saturday afternoon.

    Brett Sanders, an open carry activist who has written for PINAC in the past, drew the attention of Southlake police after he stood on the side of a highway holding up a sign saying, “cops ahead,” warning drivers of an upcoming speed trap."
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Sorry, guys, dunno what happened aside from when I went back to log-in again at the original site I got a "banned" notice saying my password was over 4,000 days old (which is funny considering that I had joined about 2 hours before posting).

    Essentially, a citizen in TX was stopped for a traffic infraction and his pistol was found, unconcealed, in one of the car's drink holders. As this was 'not in a belt or shoulder holster' the police officer made the determination that it must be being carried illegally. I haven't really researched it thoroughly, but I can't find the name of the accused or a record of the incident itself.

    Let's see if this works
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-11-2016 at 03:15 PM.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Yep, works. I think I heard about this. Not sure if there's an older thread on here about it. I'm afraid the guy may be SOL, as stupid as the law is. One more reason there shouldn't have been holster requirements to begin with!

    Personally, though, I have to say I'm a lot more interested in Brett Sanders' case, which may sound kind of jerk-like, but, I think it may have bigger implications.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 04-11-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Yep, works. I think I heard about this. Not sure if there's an older thread on here about it. I'm afraid the guy may be SOL, as stupid as the law is. One more reason there shouldn't have been holster requirements to begin with!

    Personally, though, I have to say I'm a lot more interested in Brett Sanders' case, which may sound kind of jerk-like, but, I think it may have bigger implications.
    something about standing along the side of the road holding a sign saying there is a speed trap ahead to garner the attention of the nice LE's was a nice touch to say the least...

    i had difficulty discerning, through the BS rhetoric, specifics...had this here, FL CHP there another in his pants pocket...etc...

    ipse

    added...btw...time frame mentioned on the cited FB, is about the same time as Sanders encounter...could be one and the same.
    Last edited by solus; 04-11-2016 at 06:41 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    There is no requirement to have a license to have a handgun in a vehicle, as long as it's not on a person, so how can he fail the requirements of the license?

    I've heard that handguns have to be concealed in a vehicle, not just out in the open, but that's independent of the license to carry, and there has never been a holster requirement for having it in just the vehicle.

    So it MIGHT be a legitimate charge (for anti-gun Texas) for having it in the vehicle uncovered, but that would be a charge regardless of the old or new license requirements.
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-11-2016 at 09:09 PM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    .....he noticed the firearm.Therefore, the police employee needed to see government paperwork.

    no,no.NO! He did NOT need to see a thing. A man was exercising his 1st and second Amendment rights.

    The right of a citizen to bear arms,
    in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute.
    He does not derive it from the State government.
    It is one of the high powers delegated directly to the citizen,
    and is excepted out of the general powers of government.
    A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it,
    because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power. - Cockrum v. State
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I'd have thought copblock would know better - or were they being sarcastic?
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    Regular Member qednick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    There is no requirement to have a license to have a handgun in a vehicle, as long as it's not on a person, so how can he fail the requirements of the license?

    I've heard that handguns have to be concealed in a vehicle, not just out in the open, but that's independent of the license to carry, and there has never been a holster requirement for having it in just the vehicle.

    So it MIGHT be a legitimate charge (for anti-gun Texas) for having it in the vehicle uncovered, but that would be a charge regardless of the old or new license requirements.

    Anyone (who may legally possess) can carry in a vehicle without a license provided it remains concealed.

    Anyone with a LTC/CHL can carry openly in a vehicle provided it's in a belt or shoulder holster.

    So whether he had a license or not, if it was in his cup holder, he committed an offense.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Sorry, guys, dunno what happened aside from when I went back to log-in again at the original site I got a "banned" notice saying my password was over 4,000 days old (which is funny considering that I had joined about 2 hours before posting). ...
    Sooo...what did you do/post on that site 19.9 years ago that got you banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Anyone (who may legally possess) can carry in a vehicle without a license provided it remains concealed.

    Anyone with a LTC/CHL can carry openly in a vehicle provided it's in a belt or shoulder holster.

    So whether he had a license or not, if it was in his cup holder, he committed an offense.
    Does the law specifically state that the gun in the holster, belt or shoulder, has to actually be "worn?"
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Sooo...what did you do/post on that site 19.9 years ago that got you banned?

    Does the law specifically state that the gun in the holster, belt or shoulder, has to actually be "worn?"
    Both penal code references only mention "carried in a shoulder or belt holster" - PC 46.02(a-1)(1) and PC 46.035(a). I'm not sure if that counts for "off body" carry - something I've pondered and snickered to myself about.

    Seems he was carrying it on his person - according to the Photographyisnotacrime.com link.
    Last edited by sixer-sxt; 04-12-2016 at 01:10 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qednick View Post
    Anyone (who may legally possess) can carry in a vehicle without a license provided it remains concealed.

    Anyone with a LTC/CHL can carry openly in a vehicle provided it's in a belt or shoulder holster.

    So whether he had a license or not, if it was in his cup holder, he committed an offense.
    Is holster defined in the statute, if not any device that can hold a handgun then becomes a holster. If the gun was secure in the cup holder it is IMO not a offense. NRA actually sells a cup holder designed for firearms. If this stands then also homemade holsters may then turn into offenses. What if the gun is in a locking device where it can be seen? IIRC in some court rulings a glove box has been ruled a gun case.

    This needs to be fixed, and soon, before LE sees it as an opportunity to punish OCers.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    A thought to ponder, IF a handgun may only be carried in a belt or shoulder holster, does a crime occur as soon as you hold it in your hand ready to be employed to save a life?

    I hope, that if the county solicitor has any sense at all he/she will conform to current jurisprudence 1) by interpreting any vagueness in the law in favor of the non-moving (accused) party, and 2) by not proceeding further as there is more than enough to call for a reasonable doubt.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    ... if the county solicitor has any sense at all he/she will _______.
    We USED to be able to count on the cops for that.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    True, but the new metric is number of arrests, not number of convictions. "It's the prosecuting attorney's job to prosecute, if they don't get a conviction it's their fault; not because I made an arrest under dubious circumstances."

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    True, but the new metric is number of arrests, not number of convictions. "It's the prosecuting attorney's job to prosecute, if they don't get a conviction it's their fault; not because I made an arrest under dubious circumstances."
    Even when the cop is caught during cross examination in a lie, then another lie and after those lies more lies.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ..."dubious circumstances"...this right here is too funny.

    The good gentleman is far to kind.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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