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Thread: Missouri CCW at 18?

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    Missouri CCW at 18?

    Hey guys, I'm a new member here. My father and I try to shoot every weekend. I will also be looking into the new real time scenario training that I've heard of up here. In my current standing I believe I am responsible enough to concealed carry for my own protection.

    So I've read that Missouri recognises all states CCW permits. I got that. And there are some states that will offer a CCW to 18 year old's in their state.

    What I want to know is what states would offer a Non-resident CCW at 18 that is either close enough to travel to reasonably, or that I can apply online or some way like that. I know Missouri offers CCW's at 19 now but with all the stuff going on nowadays I'd like to get started carrying as soon as possible. To my knowledge, you must be legally able to concealed carry in that state to be allowed to open carry at all.

    So the end goal is trying to get my CCW asap. Is there any correct info that anyone can offer to help me out?
    Last edited by TannerB; 04-11-2016 at 12:05 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TannerB View Post
    Hey guys, I'm a new member here. My father and I try to shoot every weekend. I will also be looking into the new real time scenario training that I've heard of up here. In my current standing I believe I am responsible enough to concealed carry for my own protection.

    So I've read that Missouri recognises all states CCW permits. I got that. And there are some states that will offer a CCW to 18 year old's in their state.

    What I want to know is what states would offer a Non-resident CCW at 18 that is either close enough to travel to reasonably, or that I can apply online or some way like that. I know Missouri offers CCW's at 19 now but with all the stuff going on nowadays I'd like to get started carrying as soon as possible. To my knowledge, you must be legally able to concealed carry in that state to be allowed to open carry at all.

    So the end goal is trying to get my CCW asap. Is there any correct info that anyone can offer to help me out?
    well, welcome to the OPEN CARRY thread and glad you are familiar with firearms...been to any type of structured pistol course?

    i am sure there will be some nice chaps along who will guide you but you might look in the far NE states to see about their age requirements.

    again welcome...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    I noticed the all caps 'open carry'. I wouldn't have made this thread if I had found any more active forum than this one

    As for the course, no I haven't. I wanted to do a little research before I took something that might be useful in obtaining the CCW or that would count as the training needed to get it.
    Last edited by TannerB; 04-11-2016 at 01:40 PM.

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    You are basically asking for two types of training. Training that gets you your CCW varies a lot by the state that issues it.

    Scenario training well be useful but is not required for most to get a CCW lic/permit.

    As far as how far you have to travel to get it depends on were you find an instructor that does what you need/or want.

    Scenario training Force on force training covers a large area from hand on, intermediate weapons, to firearms

    A quick web search turns up several training businesses in Missouri.

    Finding and instructor versed in scenario training is important all firearms instructors do not have scenario based training behind them. Done improperly scenario base training can be dangerous as with any training. There is a very fine line in making training realistic and making it dangerous.

    I have participated in design and instructed many dozens of scenario/force on force training programs.

    A good instructor should be able to build/design scenario training to meet your specific needs base on your life style and risk factors. Some firearms training programs are very ridged and do not allow training out side of their programs.

    Being a independent self-defense/ instructor firearms instructor with instructor certificates from 3 different certifying organizations. With over 35 years of experience in all kinds of self-defense and firearms training. Having taught training and developed courses up to and including instruct the instructor training at the Law Enforcement academy level.

    I could develop a scenario base training program to meet your individual/group needs. But then one needs to decide how far and how much money one wants spend on training. I am based in Northern Wis about a 10 hour drive from the KC area.

    I hope you find the training you need. If interested in what I have to offer send me a PM and we can continue the conversation.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 04-11-2016 at 02:22 PM.
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    I appreciate the opportunity and I will consider it, right now I really just need to know two things:
    1. Am I legally (at 18) allowed to open carry outside of my vehicle in the St Charles County area?
    2. What state (if any) can I go through to obtain a non-resident CCW to use in Missouri?
    I'm currently researching into Maine as an option but I'm not 100% sure on that yet.

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    I suspect, but do not know, that as a resident of Missouri the OP will have to follow the conditions/standards of Missouri while in Missouri, regardless of from where he has a non-resident permit.

    Generally (even specifically) one must honor/obey the laws of the state where they are physically standing. The laws of XYZ state do not attach to him or make him legal in Missouri.

    IOW, what I am saying is that a permit from a state which issues them to 18yo would not be valid for someone under 19 yo......IMHO.

    I have searched for a cite and come up empty handed. Can anyone local assist?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Yes, that is true to be eligible to OBTAIN a MISSOURI CC permit. But I know that people with states like MO that acknowledge all states permits, sometimes go through a certain site and get their CC through Virginia or some state in the NE with looser laws. If I moved from Maine or any other state that allows CC at 18 to MO that is at 19 but respects all states permits, would they be able to take it away? I don't believe so.

    I know it sounds weird but they MUST allow anyone to CC if they have any permit from any state, no matter what laws. Not a question of IF right now, more a question of where I should go through.

    The laws are a little too flaky to know for sure, I plan on talking to the Sheriff's Dept. or anyone higher if I can. As much as I don't want to because I know a lot of them aren't even up to date on the new laws.

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    Yes I believe that is correct to be eligible to obtain a CC permit in Missouri. But the thing is, Missouri recognizes all states permits right? So if I moved from Maine where the age is 18 with a CC to Missouri which is 19, would that give them any right to take it away?

    The law is a little too fuzzy and it doesn't really go into detail on this subject. I will talk to the Sheriff Dept as much as I don't want to, because they never seem to be up to date on the new laws. But I guess the best option would be to talk to the people I would get in trouble with.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TannerB View Post
    Yes I believe that is correct to be eligible to obtain a CC permit in Missouri. But the thing is, Missouri recognizes all states permits right? So if I moved from Maine where the age is 18 with a CC to Missouri which is 19, would that give them any right to take it away?

    The law is a little too fuzzy and it doesn't really go into detail on this subject. I will talk to the Sheriff Dept as much as I don't want to, because they never seem to be up to date on the new laws. But I guess the best option would be to talk to the people I would get in trouble with.
    I am fully aware that you are not talking about a Missouri permit, but a non-resident permit from another state.

    Don't ask a LEO, ask a good gun rights attorney. Could save you a lot of grief and money.

    Don't waste your time considering Virgina. One must be 21yo for a non-resident permit.
    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_...Concealed.shtm

    I understand your impatience, but if I were in your shoes I would take a deep breath and wait it out. Otherwise you put yourself at some risk. Keep in mind that for every rule, there may be some exceptions. Who will be the decider of fact(s)? Answer = the courts. Do you really want to go there?

    You might see if you can find a friendly legislator who will ask for an opinion on this from the Missouri Attorney General.

    Best wishes.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TannerB View Post
    Yes I believe that is correct to be eligible to obtain a CC permit in Missouri. But the thing is, Missouri recognizes all states permits right? So if I moved from Maine where the age is 18 with a CC to Missouri which is 19, would that give them any right to take it away?

    The law is a little too fuzzy and it doesn't really go into detail on this subject. I will talk to the Sheriff Dept as much as I don't want to, because they never seem to be up to date on the new laws. But I guess the best option would be to talk to the people I would get in trouble with.

    that would be your least favorite option to pursue...

    Tanner, please read through the other forum postings and you will discern a theme (not le bashing) 1) police do not know their own statutes or apply them with prejudicial attitudes coupled with qualified immunity. 2) police are allowed to lie to citizens to get them to say what the nice wishes them to say 3) police do not have to respond to any citizen's emergency as upheld by the highest court of the land.

    there is a singular consideration ~ have you acknowledged if you carry a firearm you could be a target for the nice LEs wondering a) where you got the firearm b) did you steal it c) why do you have a firearm at all ?

    btw, query...what is your burning rush to carry? ego to show off to friends? end bullying so you can flash it at those who are tormenting you?

    and your caregiver's thoughts on your carrying? it is presumed you have completed HS and wouldn't be carrying on educational property...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 04-12-2016 at 11:13 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    that would be your least favorite option to pursue...

    Tanner, please read through the other forum postings and you will discern a theme (not le bashing) 1) police do not know their own statutes or apply them with prejudicial attitudes coupled with qualified immunity. 2) police are allowed to lie to citizens to get them to say what the nice wishes them to say 3) police do not have to respond to any citizen's emergency as upheld by the highest court of the land.

    there is a singular consideration ~ have you acknowledged if you carry a firearm you could be a target for the nice LEs wondering a) where you got the firearm b) did you steal it c) why do you have a firearm at all ?

    btw, query...what is your burning rush to carry? ego to show off to friends? end bullying so you can flash it at those who are tormenting you?

    and your caregiver's thoughts on your carrying? it is presumed you have completed HS and wouldn't be carrying on educational property...

    ipse
    Whoops, I guess my first post lagged and I didn't see it when I went to make the second one. Anyways, I am well aware that most LEO's will lie and are very unaware of the real technical aspects of everything. I'm also not in any real "rush" but I am pretty much just trying to do my research and seeing if I'm able to. As for being a target I understand that part and I've definitely put some thought into it. But I also believe some of the benefits outweigh the risks If it's legal.
    None of my close friends are into carrying or really guns at all, only my dads side of the family if anything. But I've always been into "Sticking up for your rights" (but not being a complete D****e about it). And no, I'm not bullied, I get along with pretty much everyone lol.

    At my age I'm more interested in trying to CC rather than OC and get looks and/or calls for looking like a kid toting around a gun. Again, no rush, just trying to get informed.
    Last edited by TannerB; 04-12-2016 at 01:51 PM.

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    MO honors all states CCW permits and is not age specific on those permits therefore a Maine permit at 18 is legal in MO. True you must be 19 yr to obtain a MO permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Please supply us with a cite for oddity of Mo. law.
    Here ya go.

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

    Here is the URL for the whole she bang on MO law if ya want to decipher the whole enchilada.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/ch...apText571.html
    Last edited by 9026543; 04-12-2016 at 04:46 PM.

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    Forgive Solus, he is about as blunt in how he puts things as the broadside of a barn, slightly brash as you have noticed as well.

    it is good you wish to have access to and exercise your rights, however like others have stated, talk to a well versed attorney.

    it would also be good to research your county law, in regards to OC.

    and one key thing to remember as well if you do have to deal with LEO, KYBMS use your 5th and stick to it, do not speak after invoking your right, or the courts can take it as you waiving your right to remain silent.

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    Consider for comparison the age restriction on obtaining a driving license

    In Missouri, one must be a minimum of 16 yo. There are several states (Kansas, North and South Dakota) where the age is lower and with other restrictions. Using your logic, those with a DL from those states but who are less than 16yo would be legal to drive in Missouri. I submit not. That was not the intent of the law and don't think you would fare well in court.

    You have asked and been answered via opinions. but when you didn't get the answer you wanted we got a "Yes, but...."

    Show us a cite that says an underage (by MO standards) non-resident CC permit is legal/acceptable in MO.

    Going further, show us a cite where MO allows a resident to CC on another state non-resident permit as their primary permit.

    Example: to get a Utah non-resident CC permit, one must have a permit from their home state if reciprocity is present.
    http://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firear...irearm-permit/

    I suspect that by the time you resolve the issue to your satisfaction, you will have reached your 19th birthday and all of this will have become purely an academic exercise.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-12-2016 at 05:38 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    [ ... ] ... slightly brash as you have noticed as well. [ ... ]
    impudent, impertinent, tactless
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ezek [ ... ] ... slightly brash as you have noticed as well. [ ... ]
    Direct and to the point. Lets the chips fall where they may.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    MO honors all states CCW permits and is not age specific on those permits therefore a Maine permit at 18 is legal in MO. True you must be 19 yr to obtain a MO permit.
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Please supply us with a cite for oddity of Mo. law.
    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Here ya go.

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

    Here is the URL for the whole she bang on MO law if ya want to decipher the whole enchilada.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/ch...apText571.html
    That is not a cite. A cite is specific and relates directly to the query. You as much as gave him the address to the library and suggest he read all.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is not a cite. A cite is specific and relates directly to the query. You as much as gave him the address to the library and suggest he read all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Direct and to the point. Lets the chips fall where they may.
    wow ezek, you consider me 'slightly' brash, you just watched the master at work...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    You are asking us to prove a negative. A plain reading of the statute is enough. Your welcome to look for other statutes, but they aren't there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Consider for comparison the age restriction on obtaining a driving license

    In Missouri, one must be a minimum of 16 yo. There are several states (Kansas, North and South Dakota) where the age is lower and with other restrictions. Using your logic, those with a DL from those states but who are less than 16yo would be legal to drive in Missouri. I submit not. That was not the intent of the law and don't think you would fare well in court.

    You have asked and been answered via opinions. but when you didn't get the answer you wanted we got a "Yes, but...."

    Show us a cite that says an underage (by MO standards) non-resident CC permit is legal/acceptable in MO.

    Going further, show us a cite where MO allows a resident to CC on another state non-resident permit as their primary permit.

    Example: to get a Utah non-resident CC permit, one must have a permit from their home state if reciprocity is present.
    http://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firear...irearm-permit/

    I suspect that by the time you resolve the issue to your satisfaction, you will have reached your 19th birthday and all of this will have become purely an academic exercise.


    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    wow ezek, you consider me 'slightly' brash, you just watched the master at work...

    ipse
    Well I was merely easing him into that which is the acquired taste of OCDO members.

    so, your an acquired taste. and to be more frank, I have similar tastes in tactlessness.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Here ya go.

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, a valid concealed carry endorsement issued before August 28, 2013, or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.
    Here is the URL for the whole she bang on MO law if ya want to decipher the whole enchilada.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/ch...apText571.html
    I think the bolded covers the OP's question.

    and if the OP just happens to have some conflicting issues.. could always invite them out to the local paintball field for a day of splatzwarz.

    I find it is very therapeutic. it will also give some of the training one is looking for if you go MilSim Scenario. and if you make a mistake you will be rewarded with the knowledge, and a 3 day minimum reminder.
    Last edited by Ezek; 04-12-2016 at 07:01 PM.

  24. #24
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    During my CCW class, the instructor structured his class to meet the requirements of several states that allowed non-resident permits, and taught several MO 18 year olds. As noted previously, MO law only restricts the age for issuance of MO permits and accepts all other states permits without any listed exception. The difference between that and the drivers permits is that MO law explicitly accepts all out of state CCW permits. While driver's licenses are honored across state lines, I'm not aware of any MO statute that honors all learner's permits from all states the way that CCW permits are honored.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    I think the bolded covers the OP's question.

    and if the OP just happens to have some conflicting issues.. could always invite them out to the local paintball field for a day of splatzwarz.

    I find it is very therapeutic. it will also give some of the training one is looking for if you go MilSim Scenario. and if you make a mistake you will be rewarded with the knowledge, and a 3 day minimum reminder.
    Hey, I don't think we want anyone having to go home crying I have the whooooole shebang in paintball lol. I used to play pretty serious a while back. It was a pretty good time.

    And to everyone else: Wow, lots of info coming in fast. Thank you all for being helpful, I know many people have different ways of getting the info across and I'm fine with that. "Brash" or not. I'm on a few other forums so I've seen it all, don't worry about it. As long as theres factual info coming in, I have no problem with it.

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