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Thread: Suspect in deadly shooting at Ariz. college allowed to live with parents

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    Suspect in deadly shooting at Ariz. college allowed to live with parents

    Argument led to shooting by gun owner Steven Jones.
    Jones, who kept a gun in the glove box of his car, is charged with first-degree murder in the Oct. 9 death of Colin Brough on the university's main campus in Flagstaff and six counts of assault for injuring three others students. Jones maintains he acted in self-defense.

    He will be released to his parents and be monitored at home by GPS. The sad part is that his folks have to remove all their weapons from their home. So son shoots guy and parents have to give up their weapons? I don't know if Jones had a legally obtained gun. His folks owned a gun store.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/13...?intcmp=hplnws

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    The sad part is that his folks have to remove all their weapons from their home. So son shoots guy and parents have to give up their weapons? I don't know if Jones had a legally obtained gun. His folks owned a gun store.
    No, parents don't "have to remove all their weapons from their home." I'm sure they are perfectly free to let their son remain in police custody rather than waiting out his time to trial living at their home. He is an "adult" isn't he?

    As I best understand it, those under felony indictment cannot possess firearms. I may not agree with this law in every case as it seems like deprivation of rights without a conviction. But it is the law. And this is one of the rare cases where I'd impose some legal liability on the folks if their son gets ahold of one of their guns, absent reasonable efforts to secure those guns.

    I don't know that guns should have to be removed from the home. A safe to which the son doesn't have access ought to be sufficient.

    On the other hand, one person dead, three wounded, and a first degree murder indictment is no small matter. One hopes for the truth to come out at trial and some sense of justice to be achieved. But in the meantime, some kind of restrictions on the person indicted don't seem unreasonable.

    If his folks still own a gun store, they should have a fine location away from their home where they can store their guns. Even if they've sold the gun store, they probably have plenty of good contacts who will store their firearms for them. Or, their son can stay somewhere else, probably in custody at this point. Kind of sucks, especially if it turns out to be legit self-defense. But not unreasonable either.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    No, parents don't "have to remove all their weapons from their home." I'm sure they are perfectly free to let their son remain in police custody rather than waiting out his time to trial living at their home. He is an "adult" isn't he?

    As I best understand it, those under felony indictment cannot possess firearms. I may not agree with this law in every case as it seems like deprivation of rights without a conviction. But it is the law. And this is one of the rare cases where I'd impose some legal liability on the folks if their son gets ahold of one of their guns, absent reasonable efforts to secure those guns.

    I don't know that guns should have to be removed from the home. A safe to which the son doesn't have access ought to be sufficient.

    On the other hand, one person dead, three wounded, and a first degree murder indictment is no small matter. One hopes for the truth to come out at trial and some sense of justice to be achieved. But in the meantime, some kind of restrictions on the person indicted don't seem unreasonable.

    If his folks still own a gun store, they should have a fine location away from their home where they can store their guns. Even if they've sold the gun store, they probably have plenty of good contacts who will store their firearms for them. Or, their son can stay somewhere else, probably in custody at this point. Kind of sucks, especially if it turns out to be legit self-defense. But not unreasonable either.

    Charles
    Yeah. He should be in police custody. no prior criminal record doesn't mean a hoot. He killed someone and now he will live in comfort at home??

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    not a unique situation...affluence teen's rehab was borne by the taxpayers all 60K of it...
    quote: During a hearing on Friday, Judge Jean Boyd ordered Fred and Tonya Couch to pay $1,170 every month for their son Ethan’s treatment at the North Texas State hospital. The in-patient center actually costs $715 per day, which means Ethan’s parents will only pay for two days of treatment every month.


    Taxpayers will shell out the rest. unquote

    course he now has to spend 180 days per life he took behind bars...720 days, not counting time served...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Yeah. He should be in police custody. no prior criminal record doesn't mean a hoot. He killed someone and now he will live in comfort at home??
    Don't think he has been convicted yet to me it sounds like judge and prosecutor denying bail.

    Because he dared used a firearm to protect him self.

    Interesting reading at kinks below

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/12...ense-case.html

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2016/02...-reduce-2.html

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/11...been-self.html
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 04-14-2016 at 03:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Don't think he has been convicted yet to me it sounds like judge and prosecutor denying bail.

    Because he dared used a firearm to protect him self.

    Interesting reading at kinks (sic) below

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/12...ense-case.html

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2016/02...-reduce-2.html

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/11...been-self.html
    Wow! Rough situation - don't know what I would have done differently other than KMBMS until my attorney was present.

    $2 million bail? Excessive for circumstances?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    ....
    Interesting reading at kinks below
    ...
    Well those articles certainly cast the story in a little different light. Multiple intoxicated men as the aggressors with illegal drug use, the shooter with obvious injuries from a physical attack, shooter is sober. And the identity and history of the prosecutor is very troubling as well.

    I've long considered it an injustice that even after an acquittal, the man wrongly accused is not even reimbursed for his legal costs.

    Thank you for the links.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Thursday ruling from the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals from 2012

    The ruling raises the threshold for federal prosecutors going after felons living around guns, clarifying that access doesn't always equal possession, and that the felon-in-possession law doesn't automatically ban a felon from living somewhere where guns are lawfully kept.

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/161495795.html
    Anyway...back to the op, will be following the story with interest.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    It'll definitely be interesting to see how this one plays out. I'm inclined to believe that if he is being allowed home detention, there must be some reasonable evidence to support the notion that he was indeed acting in defense of himself from aggressors. But, I haven't been in the court room and I can only go by news articles, some of which reek of bias. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that he was on a college campus is entirely irrelevant, but I know that our illustrious educators tend to believe that the right to personal protection/responsibility does not exist on *their* sacrosanct grounds. If this fella's incident really was a case of self-defense, then I'm sure most of them believe that he should have just called the police and waited patiently. As far as handling the impending attack by multiple assailants? Curl up on the ground in the fetal position and beg for mercy.
    Last edited by The Trickster; 04-16-2016 at 03:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Well those articles certainly cast the story in a little different light. Multiple intoxicated men as the aggressors with illegal drug use, the shooter with obvious injuries from a physical attack, shooter is sober. And the identity and history of the prosecutor is very troubling as well.

    I've long considered it an injustice that even after an acquittal, the man wrongly accused is not even reimbursed for his legal costs.


    Thank you for the links.

    Charles
    Amen to that. $3000 in legal fees for a "he said, she said" MISDEMEANOR domestic charge where my 2nd amendment rights hung in the balance forever. Not counting the weekend in jail, the oppressive random drug/alcohol screening inconveniences and the emotional stress of actually being convicted.
    Last edited by Dario; 04-16-2016 at 07:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Amen to that. $3000 in legal fees for a "he said, she said" MISDEMEANOR domestic charge where my 2nd amendment rights hung in the balance forever. Not counting the weekend in jail, the oppressive random drug/alcohol screening inconveniences and the emotional stress of actually being convicted.
    ah sounds like you stepped into/onto to Colorado's world of DV judicial merry-go-round. the Dept of Criminal Justice has convinced the legislature that DV is equivalent to homicide and considered guilty before by the judicial system appearing before a judge.

    enjoy the classes?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ah sounds like you stepped into/onto to Colorado's world of DV judicial merry-go-round. the Dept of Criminal Justice has convinced the legislature that DV is equivalent to homicide and considered guilty before by the judicial system appearing before a judge.

    enjoy the classes?

    ipse
    I was acquitted

    But not before the White Knight cop believed the hysterical woman's side of the story enough to issue me a "warrantless arrest." The feminist D.A. was irritated that I had the nerve to refuse a plea bargain, the female judge refused the motion to dismiss based on lack of evidence and the jury was 4 women 2 men. The cards were stacked but if I can plug a defense attorney that is a pit bull in the Denver area, his name is Rick Best.

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    All the more reason to stay single, live alone, and just have some occasional fun...if you catch my drift.

    When I was younger, I was with a gal for a bit who, in order to "win" occasional arguments, would periodically threaten to call the police and feign being abused by me. She blatantly flaunted that all she had to do was hit herself in the face a few times and the cops would take her side and my rights would be destroyed in the process. What was particularly disturbing and eye-opening to me was the fact that prior to this type of behavior becoming the norm, we had already been together for several years. This, among other experiences of mine, have demonstrated the unpredictability and untrustworthiness which seem intrinsic to long-term relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I don't know that guns should have to be removed from the home. A safe to which the son doesn't have access ought to be sufficient.

    On the other hand, one person dead, three wounded, and a first degree murder indictment is no small matter.
    Adam Lanza did not have access either.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    All the more reason to stay single, live alone, and just have some occasional fun...if you catch my drift.

    When I was younger, I was with a gal for a bit who, in order to "win" occasional arguments, would periodically threaten to call the police and feign being abused by me. She blatantly flaunted that all she had to do was hit herself in the face a few times and the cops would take her side and my rights would be destroyed in the process. What was particularly disturbing and eye-opening to me was the fact that prior to this type of behavior becoming the norm, we had already been together for several years. This, among other experiences of mine, have demonstrated the unpredictability and untrustworthiness which seem intrinsic to long-term relationships.
    something about taking two to tango to allow that type of behaviour to continue...further that you have taken a monks stance leads this member to believe there is something else about your particular behavioual patterns that is not being told.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    All the more reason to stay single, live alone, and just have some occasional fun...if you catch my drift.

    When I was younger, I was with a gal for a bit who, in order to "win" occasional arguments, would periodically threaten to call the police and feign being abused by me. She blatantly flaunted that all she had to do was hit herself in the face a few times and the cops would take her side and my rights would be destroyed in the process. What was particularly disturbing and eye-opening to me was the fact that prior to this type of behavior becoming the norm, we had already been together for several years. This, among other experiences of mine, have demonstrated the unpredictability and untrustworthiness which seem intrinsic to long-term relationships.
    Why wasn't your digital recorder or nanny cam on when you induced her to talk about her not so veiled threats?

    There is more than one way to separate a cat from its skin.......figuratively speaking.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    something about taking two to tango to allow that type of behaviour to continue...further that you have taken a monks stance leads this member to believe there is something else about your particular behavioual patterns that is not being told.
    You're absolutely right. I was young, dumb, and full of...you know the rest. "She's the one! Fate brought us together! We were meant to be together forever!"

    Many moons ago and lesson(s) learned.

    And for the record, I don't think monks are into many one-night stands.
    Last edited by The Trickster; 04-17-2016 at 08:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why wasn't your digital recorder or nanny cam on when you induced her to talk about her not so veiled threats?

    There is more than one way to separate a cat from its skin.......figuratively speaking.
    Looking back, I honestly don't know why I never recorded her. But, purging her from my life was a success nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Only if the people involved allow those things to become "long term".
    True. I've just come to find it easier to avoid the long-term thing altogether. Attachment leads to agony.

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    Agree with The Trickster, there must be some reason the man isn't being denied staying with the parents, right? At the very least, they likely don't believe he'll try to run off to Mexico or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    I was acquitted

    But not before the White Knight cop believed the hysterical woman's side of the story enough to issue me a "warrantless arrest." The feminist D.A. was irritated that I had the nerve to refuse a plea bargain, the female judge refused the motion to dismiss based on lack of evidence and the jury was 4 women 2 men. The cards were stacked but if I can plug a defense attorney that is a pit bull in the Denver area, his name is Rick Best.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    True. I've just come to find it easier to avoid the long-term thing altogether. Attachment leads to agony.
    Two the both of you: glad the crazy ladies are out of your respective lives, and glad you didn't get thrown in a cage due to their antics. Hope it stays that way.


    Trickster, I must say, you sound an awful lot like I did just two years ago. Just that, hearing it from someone else is a little uncanny... O.o
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Agree with The Trickster, there must be some reason the man isn't being denied staying with the parents, right? At the very least, they likely don't believe he'll try to run off to Mexico or something.


    Two the both of you: glad the crazy ladies are out of your respective lives, and glad you didn't get thrown in a cage due to their antics. Hope it stays that way.


    Trickster, I must say, you sound an awful lot like I did just two years ago. Just that, hearing it from someone else is a little uncanny... O.o
    Was once married to a bitch witch from hell. Took a lot, but finally got out with both legs intact.

    Became a butterfly collector for a time= catch 'em, pin 'em, put 'em in a trophy case, and move on to the next specimen.

    After a while, the case was full and pretty to see, but very unfulfilling - empty memories.

    A good woman brought me back to the land of the living going over 25 years ago now.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Been married to my current, first and only wife for 35 plus years. I always told my children choose a spouse carefully because even if you get divorced they well be with you for a long time and if you have kids you well have to deal with them your whole life.
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  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Been married to my current, first and only wife for 35 plus years. I always told my children choose a spouse carefully because even if you get divorced they well be with you for a long time and if you have kids you well have to deal with them your whole life.
    It is a good man that finds and maintains a relationship of such lasting commitment - speaks well for you both.

    Back on topic - must have missed it (10/9/15) before:
    "Prosecutors said Jones left the fight, retrieved a 40-caliber handgun, and opened fire from a distance, prosecutors said. There was no evidence of self-defense, they added."
    http://www.azfamily.com/story/302248...eadly-shooting

    If that is true. it does not bode well for him.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Been married to my current, first and only wife for 35 plus years. I always told my children choose a spouse carefully because even if you get divorced they well be with you for a long time and if you have kids you well have to deal with them your whole life.
    It is a good man that finds and maintains a relationship of such lasting commitment - speaks well for you both.

    Back on topic - must have missed it (10/9/15) before:
    "Prosecutors said Jones left the fight, retrieved a 40-caliber handgun, and opened fire from a distance, prosecutors said. There was no evidence of self-defense, they added."
    http://www.azfamily.com/story/302248...eadly-shooting

    If that is true, it does not bode well for him.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Trickster, I must say, you sound an awful lot like I did just two years ago. Just that, hearing it from someone else is a little uncanny... O.o
    As I'm sure you can relate, sooner or later one gets tired of being burned. The aforementioned gal was one of particular hostility and abusiveness, but she hasn't been the only one who has betrayed me. Thus, my extreme jadedness and defensiveness with long-term relationships. All of the women I've been with in any sort of long-term sense have always changed (in a bad way) after a few years, so I don't let it get that serious anymore. It has been working well and I am happy, so why not? I have all the time in the world to immerse myself in my hobbies and focus on myself.

    Not to dwell too excessively on this extremely off-topic subject, but I hope that you have recovered from whatever you had to deal with two years ago. Uncanny indeed, but understood for sure.

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