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Thread: State Parks

  1. #1
    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    State Parks

    According to the AZ State Parks website:

    "Q: Is carrying a firearm legal in Arizona State Parks?
    A: Carrying a firearm inside any of our park's buildings is restricted (ARS 13-3102). Secondly, Arizona State Parks Rule R12-8-119 can restrict the carrying of a weapon outdoors. We do not ban legally carried firearms per se, but we have the right to limit exposure in order to maintain a family friendly recreational environment. Discharging of any weapon is prohibited."

    I am unaware of any authority or "right" granted to AZ State Parks to prohibit the carrying of firearms "in order to maintain a family friendly recreational environment." Anyone have anything?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    According to the AZ State Parks website:

    "Q: Is carrying a firearm legal in Arizona State Parks?
    A: Carrying a firearm inside any of our park's buildings is restricted (ARS 13-3102). Secondly, Arizona State Parks Rule R12-8-119 can restrict the carrying of a weapon outdoors. We do not ban legally carried firearms per se, but we have the right to limit exposure in order to maintain a family friendly recreational environment. Discharging of any weapon is prohibited."

    I am unaware of any authority or "right" granted to AZ State Parks to prohibit the carrying of firearms "in order to maintain a family friendly recreational environment." Anyone have anything?
    They're BSing. They CAN ask you to disarm, but they're also supposed to have secure storage for your sidearm and that is immediately accessible to you upon leaving. That said, there's no teeth to the law if they choose to conveniently ignore the storage requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARS 13-3102
    Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

    A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
    SNIP...
    10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01...

    N. For the purposes of this section:

    1. "Contacted by a law enforcement officer" means a lawful traffic or criminal investigation, arrest or detention or an investigatory stop by a law enforcement officer that is based on reasonable suspicion that an offense has been or is about to be committed.

    2. "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state.

    3. "Public event" means a specifically named or sponsored event of limited duration that is either conducted by a public entity or conducted by a private entity with a permit or license granted by a public entity. Public event does not include an unsponsored gathering of people in a public place.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARS 13-3102.01
    Storage of deadly weapons; definitions

    A. If an operator of a public establishment or a sponsor of a public event requests that a person carrying a deadly weapon remove the weapon, the operator or sponsor shall provide temporary and secure storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the establishment or event and allow for the immediate retrieval of the weapon on exit from the establishment or event.

    B. This section does not apply to the licensed premises of any public establishment or public event with a license issued pursuant to title 4.

    C. The operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the employee of the operator or sponsor or the agent of the sponsor, including a public entity or public employee, is not liable for acts or omissions pursuant to this section unless the operator, sponsor, employee or agent intended to cause injury or was grossly negligent.

    D. For the purposes of this section, "public establishment" and "public event" have the same meanings prescribed in section 13-3102.
    Title 4 deals with Alcoholic Beverages.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    They're BSing. They CAN ask you to disarm, but they're also supposed to have secure storage for your sidearm and that is immediately accessible to you upon leaving. That said, there's no teeth to the law if they choose to conveniently ignore the storage requirement.






    Title 4 deals with Alcoholic Beverages.
    The storage requirement is irrelevant in this case, since it only applies to buildings (structures) or temporary special events.

    I sent them an e-mail calling them out on it. I'll post the response when/if I get one. Granted, it doesn't matter what they post on their website as the law is the only thing that really matters, but the principle of the thing irks me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    The storage requirement is irrelevant in this case, since it only applies to buildings (structures) or temporary special events.

    I sent them an e-mail calling them out on it. I'll post the response when/if I get one. Granted, it doesn't matter what they post on their website as the law is the only thing that really matters, but the principle of the thing irks me.
    Exactly. They're pulling something out of thin air, then presenting it as law under, well, color of law.

    Can't wait to hear what lies they throw your way.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    2. "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state.

    3. "Public event" means a specifically named or sponsored event of limited duration that is either conducted by a public entity or conducted by a private entity with a permit or license granted by a public entity. Public event does not include an unsponsored gathering of people in a public place.
    And this in AZ of all places!

    The things you learn on OCDO...

  7. #7
    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Exactly. They're pulling something out of thin air, then presenting it as law under, well, color of law.

    Can't wait to hear what lies they throw your way.
    Indeed. I find it very annoying when folks believe that the Constitutions of our country as well as our state are inferior to the irrational fears of others. Perhaps they can direct me to the location of the clause in either which recognizes the right to a family-oriented atmosphere and more, where someone open carrying somehow infringes on that?

    The right of the people, to live in a family-oriented atmosphere based on their irrational fears and perceptions, shall not be infringed.

  8. #8
    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    And this in AZ of all places!

    The things you learn on OCDO...
    Over the years, many of us here in Arizona have unsuccessfully attempted to get the laws revised so that public buildings and/or events would not be prohibited places by law to carry. The AzCDL has been spearheading the efforts to accomplish this goal and I give them tons of credit and recognition for all that they have achieved thus far. There is currently a bill in the legislature that would allow holders of CCW permits to carry in public buildings, which if passed would be a starting point from which to expand. We'll see.

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Here's the response I received:

    "I received your question/comment below in blue concerning firearms in AZ State Parks and the FAQ portion of our website. The answer is yes you can carry firearms in Az State Park with the exception pertaining to ARS 13 -3102 "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state. Our website is being updated to reflect this, we apologize for any inconvenience. I thank you for your interest in AZ State Parks."

    Excellent.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    Here's the response I received:

    "I received your question/comment below in blue concerning firearms in AZ State Parks and the FAQ portion of our website. The answer is yes you can carry firearms in Az State Park with the exception pertaining to ARS 13 -3102 "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state. Our website is being updated to reflect this, we apologize for any inconvenience. I thank you for your interest in AZ State Parks."

    Excellent.
    Hmm. I really did expect at least one attempt to create law out of thin air...

    Oh well, this seems like the Right outcome.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  11. #11
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Well that sounds like a good ending.
    Last edited by Phoenix David; 04-29-2016 at 06:46 PM.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The law reads as if it applies to CC only. I know it may be semantics to some, but, is OC not subject to (exempt) the "public establishment" prohibition?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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