Big_Dog
Regular Member
So my question is when I buy through a private sale. Do I have to give the seller my purchase permit? Just wondering (first time buying a pistol)
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Seller wants my PPP?
- Thread starter Big_Dog
- Start date
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
There is nothing forcing the seller to sell, so yes he makes the rules. If he wants you to do the two step you can either do it, or not, but he still does not have to sell the gun. Make a copy of the PPP to show you had one at the time, along with getting a bill of sale. You can make rules too, which works the same way, there is nothing forcing you to buy.
NC statute 14-402 mandates you have a ppp to buy a firearm and the PPP you received from the nice county sheriff is a one shot deal and given to the FFL or private seller at time of purchase for their records.
Normally, you may purchase one pistol with one PPP.
Normally you get a Bill of Sale, listing the PPP info on it as well as pertinent firearm info as well as their personal info from the seller showing you have legally consummated the deal.
both documents are extremely important as they provide proof who you bought the firearm from and the seller can see you have been through a sheriff's background check.
for $5 bucks to get the PPP it isn't worth the hassle if you are content with the firearm.
sidebar: did you fire a minimum of a mag through the firearm and do the pieces of the firearm seem loose or too tight?
pm if you have further questions
ipse
OC for ME
Regular Member
PPP is a prior restraint and this requirement must be eliminated. It also seems to be a revenue scheme.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
It is a Jim Crow law, but it is not without benefits. At least not until the Brady law, having one eliminates instant background check buying a gun, so no delays. It also can be used repeatedly to buy long guns with no IBC. Otherwise to get around the sometimes delays, that can take up to 3 days, one has to submit to the CHP process.
Both the PPP, and the Brady law need to go to the trash. Background checks do not keep guns out of bad people's hands.
utbagpiper
Banned
Wow. I had no idea a permit was needed to purchase a gun in North Carolina. That is onerous.
Legally, is the purchase permit required for all firearms purchases? Or is it only required for purchase from dealers? Can a private seller legally sell a gun (and can a buyer legally purchase that gun) without the buyer having a permit to purchase?
Charles
Legally, is the purchase permit required for all firearms purchases? Or is it only required for purchase from dealers? Can a private seller legally sell a gun (and can a buyer legally purchase that gun) without the buyer having a permit to purchase?
Charles
davidmcbeth
Banned
Or, a question related to yours posted: Can a permit be required?
What if you found a gun on the ground with a note: free gun. Could you keep it?
as previously stated:
NC statute 14-402, Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden, quote: (a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase. unquote. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-402.html
PPP ~ $5. minor background check & no evidence required of firearms knowledge. turnaround: 3-5 days to get back
CHP/CCW (used anonymously in statutes) >$75+/- for 8+hour class, $75> for county sheriff (only) to accomplish thorough background check to include mental health inquiry on requester. turnaround >50 days depending on the sheriff's backlog due to recent mandated mental health inquiry levied by legislators.
NC citizens, as stated, must have these documents and FFL's are not mandated to access NICS and citizens are not delayed nor denied so walk out w/firearms in hand.
ipse
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when i stated normally, if the sale were a 'friend 2 friend' sale, eh, give them a copy of my PPP and life goes on cuz i would know where to find you in the event something goes awry.
however, as I indicated, in the event down the road, your copy of the BoS shows the nice LEs specifically where the firearm came from and that you, the buyer, 'complied' by proffering a PPP as listed on the seller's BoS.
should cease any further judicial query, at least from your perspective.
(i am not advocating disregard of nor am i able to ensure all NC citizens comply with PPP provisions in their private & personal sales and transfer of handguns)
ipse
I guess if you like talking to LEO's on fishing expeditions, and you keep such private registration paperwork secure, okay, if both parties agree to it. As long as the OP is fully informed it's not required by the law, as the PPP is.
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
I think MAC702 may be referring to a Fed raid to steal your records, a la Ares Armor.
I think MAC702 may be referring to a Fed raid to steal your records, a la Ares Armor.
Just HAVING records is something I frown on.
I should have clarified that I was referring to conditions for the sale, though, I think.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Display PPP or provide copy to seller? The more I read the laws on this topic the more anti-liberty this law becomes.
tis my understanding the buyer gives his one time use PPP to the seller. buyer's CHP information is recorded as it were.
not sure i see a problem OC for Me, VA's system is mandated FFLs go through the state police's background system, thanks to WA state's 594, private sellers 'are suppose to find' a FFL who does the back ground check of the buyer prior to transfer.
this system, allows the country sheriff to accomplish a thorough background check and just gives you a piece of paper saying you are good to go for purchase of a handgun so when you find the sweetest little deal on the firearm you have been wanting all your life ~ you can walk out of the store with it in hand. no worries of denial or delay!!!
ipse
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I would prefer an optional PPP system, not mandated but available. It is so much easier to buy a firearm with a PPP, they can also be used for long guns.
I got tired of the common delays when the Brady nonsense law was passed I always kept at least a couple PPP with me, it was well worth the five bucks apiece.
I got tired of the common delays when the Brady nonsense law was passed I always kept at least a couple PPP with me, it was well worth the five bucks apiece.
utbagpiper
Banned
Folks who get outraged at shall issue permits seem to be ok with prior restraint just to purchase a firearm. I'm frankly shocked.
The proper response at the State level is to not interfere with private sales at all. That is what my State does. No legal requirement for any paperwork at all. The onus is on the purchaser not to buy a gun if he is a prohibited person. Period.
My State also runs a State level instant background check for purchases from FFLs. It probably ties into some national Brady check but so far as I know has never had any material delay problems. When I've purchased from FFLs, the phone call runs less than 3 minutes, after completing the 4473. Those with a valid carry permit in hand don't get charged for the check which otherwise runs about $6 if I recall.
Prior to the Brady nonsense, we had no background check at all, just the completion of the 4473 for the FFL's bound book.
Permits to purchase. Background checks that take longer than a couple of minutes to complete in the age of computers and massive government data bases. Pretty draconian in my view.
Charles
The proper response at the State level is to not interfere with private sales at all. That is what my State does. No legal requirement for any paperwork at all. The onus is on the purchaser not to buy a gun if he is a prohibited person. Period.
My State also runs a State level instant background check for purchases from FFLs. It probably ties into some national Brady check but so far as I know has never had any material delay problems. When I've purchased from FFLs, the phone call runs less than 3 minutes, after completing the 4473. Those with a valid carry permit in hand don't get charged for the check which otherwise runs about $6 if I recall.
Prior to the Brady nonsense, we had no background check at all, just the completion of the 4473 for the FFL's bound book.
Permits to purchase. Background checks that take longer than a couple of minutes to complete in the age of computers and massive government data bases. Pretty draconian in my view.
Charles
quote: Authorized gun dealers are required to conduct instant background checks that must be approved by the Public Safety Bureau of Criminal Identification, or BCI for short. Those individuals that have a valid license for a concealed firearm are not subject to the background check or fee as long as the license is presented at the time of the sale. unquote http://gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/utah-gun-laws
so mate, certainly sounds like UTAH's concealed permit is a benefit to firearm buyers as it circumvents the citizen's necessity to endure BCI's background check!!
oh wait, as has previously discussed, NC citizens who purchase firearms do not have a background check either as they present their CHPs or PPP during purchase...
you know charles, i can see from your perspective that you are absolutely right...Utah's purchase requirements do sound, how did you put it, quote: Pretty draconian in my view. unquote.
ipse
added...per your statement about the onus in Utah is on the person buying...why does the BCI have out of 105K queries over the last year a 2.3K denials? oh, could it be there are some Utah citizens who are unscrupulous and try to sneak thru and lie to purchase a firearm? http://bci.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2016/04/2016Q1.pdf
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davidmcbeth
Banned
When I was a FFL in a state that had a call-in BR chk....I would either get a a) approval b) denial or c) delay
With either (a) or (c) I transferred the gun. Well, for those I actually did call-in ... I did many w/o calling. And many w/o a 4473 form being completed.
And in states where I was supposed to send the state something memorializing the transaction, I never sent any, ever.
ATF/state/gov't issues : none out side of law enforcement trying to tell me to give up my FFL, which I always showed them the door...Adios Poncho !