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Thread: More gov't overreaching ! Regulating e-cigs

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    More gov't overreaching ! Regulating e-cigs

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/fda-bring...--finance.html

    Is there anything that the gov't doesn't want to control?

    How about e-cigs that deliver zero nicotine? Presumably this is what they want to regulate...a perfectly legal substance.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    I am a slave.
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    You presume incorrectly.

    The flavored liquid ingredients are regarded as safe for ingestion but not for inhalation for lack of testing.

    One is known to cause bronchiolitis obliterans, A.K.A. Popcorn Lung when inhaled as an aerosol.

    Indeed, "vaping" involves inhaling aerosols of condensed vapors, inhaling the liquid phase droplets rather than a supersaturated vapor. They can't even get the name right.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-05-2016 at 04:16 PM.
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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    The bottom line is that the government, sadly, wants to regulate every facet of our lives. That is not what the Founding Fathers envisioned or, in fact, delineated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The reason is that those in power crave that power and more besides.

    Am I anti-government? No, but I do believe that we need to drastically reduce the size of government and restrict its powers to those defined in the Constitution. We cannot afford a government that is the be-all, do-all that some seem to want. Btw, this also applies to the state and local levels. I, nor any other reasonably sane adult, do not need the government protecting me from myself.
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    I'm the first to complain about excessive government regulation.

    And I've no doubt they will go too far with this product.

    But some minimal consumer protection by requiring truth in advertising and accurate labeling of products is not tyranny. Quite the opposite.

    The guy who is using vaporizers a smoking cessation ought to know that when he buys vaping liquid labeled with "X amount of nicotine" that he isn't getting 2X or 10X or 1/4X the indicated amount.

    Preventing Chinese manufactured refills tainted with mercury or lead from being sold under the brand name of trusted US producers is good for both property rights and public health.

    I've seen vaporizers dramatically improve the health of long-time smokers who couldn't or wouldn't quit otherwise. It seems their use generates a lot less litter than does smoking cigarettes. I'm a huge fan considering I've never had an inclination to use one.

    Basic, minimal consumer protections with accurate labeling and some testing for safety (both of the chemical mixtures being used and the vaporizers themselves so we don't have batteries blowing up in people's faces) seems not unreasonable.

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    Professor Jonathan Adler comments at some length, at The Volokh Conspiracy, disapproving of the regulation as benefitting Big Tobacco. He indulges in the misnomer, and ignores the public health hazard borne by the taxpayer.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Per the FDAs proposal, any e-cig product made after 2007, including new models, must get FDA approval to be sold. That means hiring experts to do medical research to determine the health impact of the device, which can take months and cost an estimated $3-4 million and take 5,000 hours for each application.

    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the...ot-big-tobacco

    http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/L.../ucm388395.htm
    Given the fact that the federal government states that CO2 is a pollutant it is not surprising that they want their cut of this money making industry. My comment is a simple "HECK NO!...do not inflict upon us more government."

    Let the market (the consumer...We The People) determine who stays and who goes. Zero government interference!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    You presume incorrectly.

    The flavored liquid ingredients are regarded as safe for ingestion but not for inhalation for lack of testing.

    One is known to cause bronchiolitis obliterans, A.K.A. Popcorn Lung when inhaled as an aerosol.

    Indeed, "vaping" involves inhaling aerosols of condensed vapors, inhaling the liquid phase droplets rather than a supersaturated vapor. They can't even get the name right.
    Normally a vaping mixture containing any of these: water, glycerin, propylene glycol (PG) ... and additives for flavor etc.

    You want to suck up glycol into your lungs? That's your choice. PG is allowed in food ...

    Like your said, ingestion is totally different than inhalation. Liquids have different properties than gas - even with the same material.

    The only thing that companies should do is to list all of the ingredients and a general range of %. Then people can make up their own minds.

    Want to eat this 100% potassium cyanide? Go right ahead. Gotta be safer than 100% sodium cyanide, right?

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post

    SNIP

    Want to eat this 100% potassium cyanide? Go right ahead. Gotta be safer than 100% sodium cyanide, right?
    You're correct, buyer/user beware. Keep government out of it.

    As for the cyanide, let us see which one is safer by using politicians as the lab subjects.

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    The median LD_50 dose is the same 10 (+/- 5) mg/kg for both potassium cyanide and sodium cyanide. It is the triple bonded cyano CN group that is effective, not the metallic salt.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The median LD_50 dose is the same 10 (+/- 5) mg/kg for both potassium cyanide and sodium cyanide. It is the triple bonded cyano CN group that is effective, not the metallic salt.
    Thanks professor ! I guess I'll just go with Mg(CN)2 .. just to be safe ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    You're correct, buyer/user beware. Keep government out of it.

    As for the cyanide, let us see which one is safer by using politicians as the lab subjects.

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    Maybe someone would create a cookie line just for them ! With the ingredients is really small print.

    Yummy Yummy Cookies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozqfOzqMvlQ

    [humor, duh]

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    Thanks. It was difficult to pick the humor out of the stream of unconsciousness word salad.
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/fda-bring...--finance.html

    Is there anything that the gov't doesn't want to control?

    How about e-cigs that deliver zero nicotine? Presumably this is what they want to regulate...a perfectly legal substance.
    They want to control "the people" and by controlling ever more "things" they will eventually control everything and thus "the people" will be their slaves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    They want to control "the people" and by controlling ever more "things" they will eventually control everything and thus "the people" will be their slaves.
    in effect, we already are. we work, to pay them for things we dont' want, through collection of income taxes, compensation for our services and products, they steal since the amount they give to themselves from OUR earnigns is not from products or services, rendered, but enslavement through color of law. this is not a product or service produced by them, but by us.. we are paying them to be of service to them... kind of a revelation, when you get it.

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    Like religion, one can't get it until one gets it. LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Thanks. It was difficult to pick the humor out of the stream of unconsciousness word salad.
    Some folks would find it impossible

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    They want to control "the people" and by controlling ever more "things" they will eventually control everything and thus "the people" will be their slaves.
    We are slaves served by our master ? Interesting.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    We are slaves served by our master ? Interesting.
    NO; we are, or soon will be slaves, serving our political class masters, when was the last time anyone "in office" did anything FOR you and not TO you?

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    In the instant case, it is a benefit for me to minimize the expense of the single payer healthcare system, by minimizing the ill effects of ignorance.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    NO; we are, or soon will be slaves, serving our political class masters, when was the last time anyone "in office" did anything FOR you and not TO you?
    Really, I have not been alive for 1000 yrs .. so is that a fair question? LOL

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    I'm not sure using the slave-owning tobacco-farming founders as our epitome of modern governance is useful. Things change, times change, and when we start to see public health problems because of emerging hazards, it is good that we take action to prevent the damage. An entirely unregulated industry that is essentially providing a way to mainline industrial chemicals into the bloodstream needs to monitored. People expect at least a minimum of oversight keeping unreasonably dangerous things off the market. Most people look at the stuff on the shelf and say "they couldn't sell it if it wasn't safe" which right now is not the case. Maybe they should have a program that has two tiers: Safe for the intended use, and Untested and potentially dangerous. Fair warnings with accurate information is really all I want.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    I'm not sure using the slave-owning tobacco-farming founders as our epitome of modern governance is useful. Things change, times change, and when we start to see public health problems because of emerging hazards, it is good that we take action to prevent the damage. An entirely unregulated industry that is essentially providing a way to mainline industrial chemicals into the bloodstream needs to monitored. People expect at least a minimum of oversight keeping unreasonably dangerous things off the market. Most people look at the stuff on the shelf and say "they couldn't sell it if it wasn't safe" which right now is not the case. Maybe they should have a program that has two tiers: Safe for the intended use, and Untested and potentially dangerous. Fair warnings with accurate information is really all I want.


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    You have no idea about what you consume .. I assure you. Your food that is regulated by the FDA does not require full ingredient disclosure; food that the US Dept. of Ag. regulates does.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You have no idea about what you consume .. I assure you. Your food that is regulated by the FDA does not require full ingredient disclosure; food that the US Dept. of Ag. regulates does.
    They don't require disclosure of everything......


    http://nypost.com/2015/06/11/the-fda...-in-your-food/

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    They don't require disclosure of everything......


    http://nypost.com/2015/06/11/the-fda...-in-your-food/
    My post was regarding stuff that companies put into food purposefully .... but your linked page is correct too...you cannot expect perfection in manufacturing environments....most places I have seen do try their best but I imagine that there are some that only try a little. The market keeps most in line.

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