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Thread: ATF allows electronic record keeping

  1. #1
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    ATF allows electronic record keeping

    quote:
    Ruling 2016-1 supersedes 2013-5 and allows for cloud or remote server storage of records, with some substantial conditions. It also explicitly requires all bound books, such as repair or NFA records, to be in electronic form if records for firearms held for sale are in electronic form. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...cally/download


    Ruling 2016-2 supersedes 2008-3 and allows for electronic signatures, electronic migration of NICS data and electronic storage of pending Forms 4473. All of these changes come with some specific conditions that have to be met. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...-4473/download


    Ruling 2016-3 involves manufacturers only and supersedes Ruling 2010-8. It clarifies how manufacturers should record changes in model, type, caliber, etc. in the bound books. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...urers/download

    unquote.

    for those who might be interested...

    ipse
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    Yet more fascism ...

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    wow, kinda impressed...a minute after i posted you popped off...quite impressive

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    They got to make sure the info is easily collected and searchable when the time comes for banning/confiscation.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    wow, kinda impressed...a minute after i posted you popped off...quite impressive

    ipse
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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-09-2016 at 10:38 PM. Reason: fixed
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    I'm a Solus groupie ! I admit it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStack View Post
    They got to make sure the info is easily collected and searchable when the time comes for banning/confiscation.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    +1
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStack View Post
    They got to make sure the info is easily collected and searchable when the time comes for banning/confiscation.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    do not see the info being 'easily collected' whether it is in the FFL's A&D tome or on a hdd or CD ?

    and if encrypted on said electronic media...hummmm (kinda tough to encrypt the A&D tome)

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    5. The licensee must download all records from the system to a physical storage device (e.g. hard drive, Compact Disc (CD), Digital Versatile Disc (DVD), or Universal Serial Bus (USB) Flash Drive) at the licensee’s business premises, or print and maintain them at the licensee’s business premises:
    a. at least semiannually; however, if the records are downloaded, from a host facility (e.g., remote server or cloud storage provider) contracted/leased by the licensee as provided in condition #9, they must be downloaded at least daily. In all cases, the records must be downloaded in a format that is unencrypted with the required information readily apparent;
    b. upon request of an ATF officer (must be provided within 24 hours);
    c. prior to discontinuance or change of: the software (program); the database system, whether or not maintained by a host facility (e.g., remote server or cloud storage provider); and/or the host facility (if applicable); and
    d. prior to discontinuance of the licensee’s firearms business.
    Condition #9 requires that the data be encrypted if held "outside" the dealers business.

    Keep it paper...with really bad handwriting.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Condition #9 requires that the data be encrypted if held "outside" the dealers business.

    Keep it paper...with really bad handwriting.
    the word legible comes to mind...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    do not see the info being 'easily collected' whether it is in the FFL's A&D tome or on a hdd or CD ?

    and if encrypted on said electronic media...hummmm (kinda tough to encrypt the A&D tome)

    ipse
    This is why i don't post here. I see it in every post, not just talking about posts I am involved in, but the way everyone treats everyone.
    Everyone here is a bunch of anal retentive bastages that nitpicks and negatively comments on anything and everything anyone says.
    It drives people away.

    The point is that if the federal government wants it in electronic format it can EASILY be transformed/converted into a database that could used for collection/confiscation.
    I mean lets face it does the federal government want to take all those handwritten forms and input them one by one into a database ? no.
    It would be a lot easier if the FFL dealers did it for them. and then all the FFL dealer had to do was hand over a thumb drive (or hell email it)with a copy of their database on it.

    is it that hard of a concept to grasp? that was all I was trying to say.

    now you will nitpick that "that is illegal yatti yatti yatti 1986 blah blah blah... I know everything... ".... until you realize that they can and will rewrite the law.

    I am done here... gone. Admin please delete this account. Thanks.
    Last edited by BigStack; 05-11-2016 at 03:56 AM.

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    A positive suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by BigStack View Post
    [ ... ] Everyone here is a bunch of anal retentive bastages that nitpicks and negatively comments on anything and everything anyone says. It drives people away. [ ... ]
    If exclusively positive reinforcing comments are desired, there is always Facebook - deFacedBoog. They may even have rules against being correct and precise as microaggression.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStack View Post
    This is why i don't post here. I see it in every post, not just talking about posts I am involved in, but the way everyone treats everyone.
    Everyone here is a bunch of anal retentive bastages (sic) that nitpicks and negatively comments on anything and everything anyone says.
    It drives people away.

    snipped for second response...

    I am done here... gone. Admin please delete this account. Thanks.
    well Big, guess i missed where you were insulted, called anal retentive, and otherwise demeaned by a member in a response back to you.

    Big your behaviour is what drives the kind folk who frequent the forum away!!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStack View Post
    snipp...previously discussed...

    The point is that if the federal government wants it in electronic format it can EASILY be transformed/converted into a database that could used for collection/confiscation.
    I mean lets face it does the federal government want to take all those handwritten forms and input them one by one into a database ? no.
    It would be a lot easier if the FFL dealers did it for them. and then all the FFL dealer had to do was hand over a thumb drive (or hell email it)with a copy of their database on it.

    is it that hard of a concept to grasp? that was all I was trying to say.

    I am done here... gone. Admin please delete this account. Thanks.
    now, Big, the A&D (which would now include electronic media) is the private property of the nice FFL's business. as such the FFL has an ATF statutory obligation to 'show' their A&D to agents who wish to check something out. to remove it from the premise they need a warrant.

    rewrite the law...absolutely as FFLs have been whining to the ATF to get rid of the pencil ledger for years and come into the election era...apparently someone woke up from their 20 year sleep and decided to put a new ruling into place.

    sorry your feelings are sooo exposed that the slightest challenge devastates you to your core so you wish to leave...

    finally, if you meant something else with your initial post, perhaps you should have said it differently...

    but eh, life goes on...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-11-2016 at 10:17 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Wow, the ATF is finally catching up with 1990s technology!

    Nice...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Wow, the ATF is finally catching up with 1990s technology!

    Nice...
    Super Calc is the required program to use to input the data.

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