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Thread: More news from Nik Clark; Teacher Charged With Felony Despite Obeying Law.

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    More news from Nik Clark; Teacher Charged With Felony Despite Obeying Law.

    Greetings in Freedom:

    We have another notable situation in Wisconsin that all CCL holders should be aware of.

    In late April a school teacher here in Wisconsin, who believed (and from the news reports I agree) was LEGALLY storing his gun UN-loaded and encased in his center console of his locked vehicle as per Wisconsin Law, was charged with a felony for having a gun on school grounds.

    News Report: http://fox11online.com/news/local/no...ver-gun-in-car

    This is yet another example of the travesty that is Wisconsin's prohibition against carry on school grounds EVEN in your personal vehicle.

    Wisconsin law requires your gun be UN-loaded and encased when on School Grounds EVEN in your own vehicle. Here is the statutory definition of encased: "(b) "Encased" means enclosed in a case that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed."

    Wisconsin Carry believes an unloaded gun secured in the center console MEETS the definition of "encased" because the latch on the center console meets the definition of "otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed". APPARENTLY the district attorney in Shawano County disagrees.

    Now a law-abiding school teacher is suspended from his job facing FELONY charges with attorneys fees piling up.

    Frequently after I discuss "school grounds carry" I have people tell me "as long as you are doing nothing wrong, the police would just give you a warning". This situation should prove to us all that NOT ONLY will you receive NO leniency, NO warning, NO benefit-of-the-doubt, but the police and DA will use a definition of "encased" that the statute does NOT seem to support.

    While I hope and pray this poor guy beats the charges in court, his reputation has been dragged through the media, his life is on hold, he is suspended from his job, he has attorney fees piling up... ALL because he tried to FOLLOW the letter of the law.

    The "School Grounds Carry" bill (SB589) that Republican Senator Van Wanggaard of the 21st Senate District (Racine County) refused to move forward in the committee he chairs last session NEEDS to be given priority by Republican legislators who claim to support the 2nd Amendment and right to carry. HOW MANY MORE law abiding citizens need to have their life ruined before Wisconsin's legislators make the SIMPLE change to Wisconsin law to adopt the provision of the FEDERAL gun free school zone law that ALREADY allows CCL holders to carry on school grounds.

    The following link on the Wisconsin Carry website has a more detailed history on the effort WCI has undertaken over the past FOUR YEARS trying to get school grounds carry passed.

    http://www.wisconsincarry.org/news/s...carry-(2).aspx

    Please be welcome to share this email or the links within with your legislators, friends, fellow gun owners. (Note, do not forward the entire email, instead copy and paste the text into a new email. IF YOU FORWARD EMAILS from Wisconsin Carry the "unsubscribe" function at the bottom of the email will be included and anyone you forward the email who clicks "unsubscribe" will UNSUBSCRIBE YOU FROM ALL FUTURE WCI EMAILS)

    Carry On,

    Nik Clark
    Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
    www.wisconsincarry.org
    nik@wisconsincarry.org
    www.facebook.com/wisconsincarry

  2. #2
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    so Wisconsin open carry is digging into their legal fund providing legal assistance or at least an amicus curiae to the county court?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so Wisconsin open carry is digging into their legal fund providing legal assistance or at least an amicus curiae to the county court?

    ipse
    looks like it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    looks like it
    Looks like which?

    In Wisconsin, amicus briefs are addressed only in Wisc. Stats. Chapter 809 Rules Of Appellate Procedure. Beyond that, non-party briefs are solicited or accepted at the discretion of the court. Wisconsin judges are sensitized to the drift from amici curiae, friends of the court, to party amici by the Wisconsin Bar Association.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Loose lips sink ships and perhaps teachers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Looks like which?

    In Wisconsin, amicus briefs are addressed only in Wisc. Stats. Chapter 809 Rules Of Appellate Procedure. Beyond that, non-party briefs are solicited or accepted at the discretion of the court. Wisconsin judges are sensitized to the drift from amici curiae, friends of the court, to party amici by the Wisconsin Bar Association.
    Legal assistance. I believe. Does this teacher have a second amendment insurance coverage, where you can get legal help and they are paid for it by the company like USCCA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Legal assistance. I believe. Does this teacher have a second amendment insurance coverage, where you can get legal help and they are paid for it by the company like USCCA?
    Good question, but would it apply? Many of these policies are for self-defense usage, not possession issues. Additionally, they may not cover illegal possession, and you might be fighting your own insurance company if they agree with the prosecutor; though you would hope they wouldn't.

    How was he snitched out?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    If he gets convicted this could be a prime case to appeal under the Wis. bearing arms amendment.

    Not that I trust the courts to do the right thing.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    If he gets convicted this could be a prime case to appeal under the Wis. bearing arms amendment. Not that I trust the courts to do the right thing.
    Review the rules and grounds for appeal, generally reversible judicial error, not mere objection. Wisc. Stats. Chapter 808 has vast case law.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    [ ... ]How was he snitched out?
    From the news report linked above: "The complaint says another teacher told the district Kuehn kept a gun in the center console of his car."

    Like Franky said, loose lips sinks ships, or, as I would say it, a secret bared is a secret shared. Concealed means concealed.

    Perhaps the root is the generational misunderstanding of friend as one that has shared likes on deFacedBoog. I saw an apropos aphorism, "Friends are the family one has chosen."
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "Wisconsin Carry believes an unloaded gun secured in the center console MEETS the definition of "encased" because the latch on the center console meets the definition of "otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed".
    If the applicable law does not explicitly state "glove box/console ect..." then it ain't "encased." Know the law, follow the law.

    Sucks to be him.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    so law abider, Ms Clark's communique was to just inform per se?

    Not an announcement to say Wisconsin Carry is providing any type of legal accommodation to the bloke caught in the snare of his own bragging about his firearm stored in his car?

    ok, got it!!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-13-2016 at 08:22 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If the applicable law does not explicitly state "glove box/console ect..." then it ain't "encased." Know the law, follow the law. Sucks to be him.
    Wisconsin gun advocates had to reinvent the wheel.

    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
    [ ... ]
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:

    (a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener ...
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-13-2016 at 08:29 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    I would question if the infraction takes place in Keshena, which is in Menominee county, which is a sovereign nation, how can Shawano county have any jurisdiction.
    "Democracy..... Is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch,
    Liberty..... Is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc.38 View Post
    I would question if the infraction takes place in Keshena, which is in Menominee county, which is a sovereign nation, how can Shawano county have any jurisdiction.
    Menominee County, Wisconsin, does not have a court or courthouse. Menominee County is largely coterminous with the res but the County is not a sovereign nation.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Who here would not nullify this persecution if a jurist? Not me, I would end the deliberations very quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Who here would not nullify this persecution if a jurist? Not me, I would end the deliberations very quickly.
    Assuming you could even get past voir dire and then be seated as a juror, you could not end the deliberations quickly.

    You can try to persuade your fellow jurors to see things your way and vote for acquittal. But if they are not inclined to do so, the best you can do, by yourself, is to drag out the deliberations by refusing to vote guilty. But this may require some careful communications if other jurors are not inclined to support you.

    Even FIJA reports that a juror can be removed during deliberations (in at least some jurisdictions) if it becomes clear that he is acting to nullify, as opposed to simply being un-persuaded by the prosecutor's case.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so law abider, Ms Clark's communique was to just inform per se?

    Not an announcement to say Wisconsin Carry is providing any type of legal accommodation to the bloke caught in the snare of his own bragging about his firearm stored in his car?

    ok, got it!!

    ipse
    It is news that went under radar for many and he is bringing it up to let us know how dangerous it is that senator Van Wanggaard has refused to allow SB589 to come on the floor. This incident could happen to anyone of us.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    It is news that went under radar for many and he is bringing it up to let us know how dangerous it is that senator Van Wanggaard has refused to allow SB589 to come on the floor. This incident could happen to anyone of us.
    oh, ok so the poor teacher is just being thrown under the bus and used as sacrificial scapegoat material just to make a point that anyone who told their peers how they are securing their firearm on school grounds might get them into trouble cuz a legislator failed to initiate action.

    got it...the grassroots entity doesn't care about this citizen's plight one iota. good to know!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-16-2016 at 06:56 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so Wisconsin open carry is digging into their legal fund providing legal assistance or at least an amicus curiae to the county court?
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Not an announcement to say Wisconsin Carry is providing any type of legal accommodation to the bloke caught in the snare of his own bragging about his firearm stored in his car?
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    oh, ok so the poor teacher is just being thrown under the bus and used as sacrificial scapegoat material just to make a point that anyone who told their peers how they are securing their firearm on school grounds might get them into trouble cuz a legislator failed to initiate action.

    got it...the grassroots entity doesn't care about this citizen's plight one iota. good to know!
    And here I thought presuming to tell other people how to spend their money was a trait held by gun grabbing, bed-wetting, control-freak liberals.

    I notice our faux-Aussie never asked for information on where to send a donation of his own. He just belittles someone else for not doing what he isn't doing. How very snarky.

    Obviously, an organization has limited resources and has to pick their battles carefully to maximize the beneficial effect of those resources. It appears the teacher did actually violate the law regarding guns in school zones. That doesn't seem a very winnable legal battle at this stage. But it does highlight the need to change the law making his peaceful conduct a crime.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    And here I thought presuming to tell other people how to spend their money was a trait held by gun grabbing, bed-wetting, control-freak liberals.

    I notice our faux-Aussie never asked for information on where to send a donation of his own. He just belittles someone else for not doing what he isn't doing. How very snarky.

    Obviously, an organization has limited resources and has to pick their battles carefully to maximize the beneficial effect of those resources. It appears the teacher did actually violate the law regarding guns in school zones. That doesn't seem a very winnable legal battle at this stage. But it does highlight the need to change the law making his peaceful conduct a crime.

    Charles
    Oh mate, thank you for continuing your habitual display of insisting on condescending comments against members and this time, out of the blue, you initiated the insulting assault w/o being challenged...

    tho, your prognosis is progressing a little faster than i thought you might...keep your eyes open as the sudden stop will jar you a bit when you hit rock bottom...

    enjoy you crash mate, make sure you have a strong support group around you as you will need them.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-17-2016 at 09:13 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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