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Critics fire back at Seattle gun, ammo tax they claim is aimed at killing business

Law abider

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Aug 17, 2011
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Ellsworth Wisconsin
This happened in the Marinas Islands recently, a US territory. $1000 gun tax per gun there. Positivists cannot eliminate 2A so they make it expensive to own and shoot a gun.
Mike Coombs feels like he is in the crosshairs of Seattle lawmakers, who this year implemented a special tax on the guns and ammo his Fourth Avenue store has sold for more than 40 years

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/2...s-aimed-at-killing-business.html?intcmp=hpbt2
 
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Bill45

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Positivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism
Wikipedia
Positivism is a philosophical theory stating that positive knowledge is based on natural phenomena and their properties and relations. Thus, information derived from sensory experience, interpreted through reason and logic, forms the exclusive source of all authoritative knowledge.

WTF
 

Difdi

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Well, if a high tax on guns and ammunition is legal, then an equally high tax on books, printer ink and pamphlets is equally legal. After all, if it's not infringing to tax something prohibitively, it's not infringing.
 

BB62

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Well, if a high tax on guns and ammunition is legal, then an equally high tax on books, printer ink and pamphlets is equally legal. After all, if it's not infringing to tax something prohibitively, it's not infringing.
Excellent point.

Wasn't there a tax like that in colonial times?
 

amlevin

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At least one firearm dealer who did a rather thriving business has move his business OUT of Seattle. Net result of this tax law is that Seattle will fall far short of their estimated revenue from the tax, not to mention the loss of the local sales tax portion collected on these sales.

Seattle seems to be an island of utter stupidity in our State. I for one refuse to do business there unless absolutely necessary and that means I can't get what I need or want somewhere else. Time for more people to do likewise.
 

amlevin

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Yup. Things like that were one of the reasons we rebelled.

Our forefathers rebelled because they were being governed and taxed with no representation.

Today, because of voter apathy, we in the same situation. A very few have far greater power than they should because nobody steps up and challenges them.


If people woke up and stopped sending the same morons off to Congress, the State Legislature, or City/Councils, and instead replaced them with individuals that would truly represent their constituents, there'd be no issue. (or at least far less).
 

Difdi

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Liberals and democrats represent their constituents interests.

Conservatives and Repubicans should represent their constituents' principles.

I was elected, made conservative decisions (no new taxes, no new spending) on principle and served one term for goring a favorite ox of everybody.

The problem is that the larger your campaign contribution, the more inclined the politician is to listen to you. If a corporation contributes more than any other individual, well, that corporation is the important constituent to represent.

A bigger problem is that any way you can reform that would likely make things worse. If an individual has rights but two or more people standing together in agreement have reduced rights or no rights...
 

solus

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corporation personhood has been a contentious and tenacious concept since our colonial times as our forefathers dealt with UK corporations sanctioned by the royal family dealt with the colonies.

of late, the turning point occurred approximately six years ago when the highest court in the land ruled corporations can contribute massive monetary funding to the political campaigns of their choice, thus, IMO buying the loyalty of the legislator, mayor, council member, judge, ad nauseam sitting in control of JQPublic.

not sure the ruling will ever be overturned as those in power enjoy the massive funding to 'do their own thing' while campaigning.

ipse
 

HPmatt

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I think the Citizens United has produced the McConnell effect - where the multi-national corporations that are members of the US CofC finance republican primary candidates that are not Constitutional - witness Todd Young beating Stutzman in the primary. Definitely lots of $ rolling around against Joe-sixpack candidates - both on republican and democrat sides.


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Jim675

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Bellevue, Washington, USA
Blaming our political situation on corporations misses the mark. Like our government, corporations are made up of people. And just like everyone else, they are: ignorant, greedy, well-meaning, deluded, clever, support cronyism, and guided by preconceived notions. All politics have always been this way. I challenge you to assign a date before which we were "pure".

Its simple human nature.

1. If you give people power they screw things up. The more power, the more damage.

2. If you restrain their power they find ways to increase it and then follow rule number one.

Taking power back is difficult. Good luck to all.
 

solus

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Blaming our political situation on corporations misses the mark. Like our government, corporations are made up of people. And just like everyone else, they are: ignorant, greedy, well-meaning, deluded, clever, support cronyism, and guided by preconceived notions. All politics have always been this way. I challenge you to assign a date before which we were "pure".

Its simple human nature.

1. If you give people power they screw things up. The more power, the more damage.

2. If you restrain their power they find ways to increase it and then follow rule number one.

Taking power back is difficult. Good luck to all.

1776 !!

ipse

added:...take away the mega millions corporation's spend towards campaigns as well as deduct the money from their corp tax base, if they contribute to the tax base at all, and see how well those running for office do and where their loyalty swings to. good olde boy system was still a viable enterprise and citizens knew for certain where the campaign was going.

Ipse
 
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amlevin

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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
corporation personhood has been a contentious and tenacious concept since our colonial times as our forefathers dealt with UK corporations sanctioned by the royal family dealt with the colonies.

of late, the turning point occurred approximately six years ago when the highest court in the land ruled corporations can contribute massive monetary funding to the political campaigns of their choice, thus, IMO buying the loyalty of the legislator, mayor, council member, judge, ad nauseam sitting in control of JQPublic.

not sure the ruling will ever be overturned as those in power enjoy the massive funding to 'do their own thing' while campaigning.

ipse


Regardless, Corporations themselves have no vote. The shareholders themselves do. Consider that Corporations are merely following the wishes of their shareholders when they support certain candidates.

What people need to wake up to is that they need to start using that object on their shoulders for more than just a place to park a hat. To wake up to the fact that they could well be in the drivers seat if they would only vote, both in local and national elections, but in Shareholder meetings as well.

Apathy has caused the problems we see to day. It's sad that in the last several Presidential Elections the best turnout was in 2004 with 60.5% of the registered voters bothering to cast a ballot. Of the remaining percentage I wonder how many of them are among the chronic complainers about government.
 

HPmatt

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Regardless, Corporations themselves have no vote. The shareholders themselves do. Consider that Corporations are merely following the wishes of their shareholders when they support certain candidates.

What people need to wake up to is that they need to start using that object on their shoulders for more than just a place to park a hat. To wake up to the fact that they could well be in the drivers seat if they would only vote, both in local and national elections, but in Shareholder meetings as well.

Apathy has caused the problems we see to day. It's sad that in the last several Presidential Elections the best turnout was in 2004 with 60.5% of the registered voters bothering to cast a ballot. Of the remaining percentage I wonder how many of them are among the chronic complainers about government.

Here is the shareholder proposal for Exxon-Mobil from last weeks' annual meeting - it is on the long, legal SEC style, so bear with, but basically any public corporation buries its lobbying expenses so shareholders don't have a clue what they do with the money, or how much, like XOM funding climate study research, etc - a Billion places to hide it....

ITEM 9 – REPORT ON LOBBYING
This proposal was submitted by United Steelworkers, Five Gateway Center, Pittsburgh, PA 15222, the beneficial
owner of 116 shares and lead proponent of a filing group.
“Whereas, we believe in full disclosure of our company’s direct and indirect lobbying activities and expenditures
to assess whether our company’s lobbying is consistent with ExxonMobil’s expressed goals and in the best interest
of shareholders.
Resolved, the shareholders of ExxonMobil request the preparation of a report, updated annually, disclosing:
1. Company policy and procedures governing lobbying, both direct and indirect, and grassroots lobbying
communications.
2. Payments by ExxonMobil used for (a) direct or indirect lobbying or (b) grassroots lobbying communications, in
each case including the amount of the payment and the recipient.
3. ExxonMobil’s membership in and payments to any tax-exempt organization that writes and endorses model
legislation.
4. Description of management’s and the Board’s decision making process and oversight for making payments
described in sections 2 and 3 above.
For purposes of this proposal, a ‘grassroots lobbying communication’ is a communication directed to the general
public that (a) refers to specific legislation or regulation, (b) reflects a view on the legislation or regulation and
(c) encourages the recipient of the communication to take action with respect to the legislation or regulation.
‘Indirect lobbying’ is lobbying engaged in by a trade association or other organization of which ExxonMobil is a
member.
Both ‘direct and indirect lobbying’ and ‘grassroots lobbying communications’ include efforts at the local, state and
federal levels.
The report shall be presented to the Audit Committee or other relevant oversight committees and posted on
ExxonMobil’s website.
Supporting Statement
As shareholders, we encourage transparency and accountability in ExxonMobil’s use of corporate funds to
influence legislation and regulation. ExxonMobil spent $26.07 million in 2013 and 2014 on federal lobbying
(opensecrets.org). These figures do not include lobbying expenditures to influence legislation in states, where
ExxonMobil also lobbies but disclosure is uneven or absent. For example, ExxonMobil spent $699,362 on lobbying
in California for 2014 (http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/). ExxonMobil’s lobbying on climate change has attracted
media attention (‘Exxon Knew about Climate Change Decades Ago, Spent $30M to Discredit It,’ Christian Science
Monitor, Sep. 17, 2015).
ExxonMobil is a member of the American Petroleum Institute, Business Roundtable and National Association of
Manufacturers, which together spent over $65 million on lobbying for 2013 and 2014. ExxonMobil is also a
member of the Western States Petroleum Association, which spent $13,553,942 on lobbying in California for
2013 and 2014. ExxonMobil does not disclose its memberships in, or payments to, trade associations, or the
63
portions of such amounts used for lobbying. Transparent reporting would reveal whether company assets are being
used for objectives contrary to ExxonMobil’s long-term interests.
And ExxonMobil does not disclose membership in or contributions to tax-exempt organizations that write and
endorse model legislation, such as being a member of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC).
ExxonMobil’s ALEC membership has drawn press scrutiny (‘ExxonMobil Gave Millions to Climate-Denying
Lawmakers despite Pledge,’ The Guardian, Jul. 15, 2015). More than 100 companies have publicly left ALEC,
including BP, ConocoPhillips, Occidental Petroleum and Shell.”​

The Board recommends you vote AGAINST this proposal for the following reasons:
ExxonMobil, like many U.S. companies, labor unions, and other entities, engages in lobbying in the United States
at both the federal and state levels to explain or advocate the Corporation’s position when necessary. ExxonMobil
complies fully with all state and federal requirements concerning lobbying activity and related disclosures. Pursuant
to the federal Lobby Disclosure Act, ExxonMobil publicly reports on a quarterly basis to Congress its lobbying
expenses and the specific issues lobbied. The reports are accessible to the general public on the U.S. Senate’s
website at senate.gov. Lobby reports are also filed with state and local jurisdictions as required by law.
ExxonMobil also provides support to a variety of think tanks, trade associations, and coalitions in order to promote
informed dialogue and sound public policy on matters pertinent to the Corporation’s interests. Some of the support
provided to these organizations may be used by the firms for lobbying. The total figure reported in ExxonMobil’s
public Lobby Disclosure Act filings includes expenses associated with the costs of employee federal lobbying, as
well as those portions of payments to trade associations, coalitions and think tanks that are spent on federal
lobbying.
The Corporation believes the rigor of these requirements provides sufficient transparency and accountability of our
public advocacy activities to the general public, including shareholders. The Congress and Executive Branch are the
appropriate recipients of the proponent’s specific positions on our nation’s policy disclosure laws, and any reforms
they seek.
The Corporation has an established practice to determine which public policy issues are important to ExxonMobil,
which includes gaining input from affected business lines and functional departments such as Law and Public and
Government Affairs. Key issues are reviewed by the Management Committee and Board of Directors of the
Corporation. ExxonMobil’s position on key policy issues are posted in the Current Issues section at exxonmobil.com,
and our lobbying activities are aligned with those positions. In addition, our policy and procedures governing
lobbying, including oversight, can be found in the Accountability section of the same website. We believe detailed
disclosures concerning internal deliberations on public policy issues could be competitively harmful, and would be
of questionable utility to shareholders.
ExxonMobil promotes discussion on issues of direct relevance to the Company. We contribute to a wide range of
academic and policy organizations that research and promote dialogue on significant domestic and foreign policy
issues. Our contributions do not constitute an endorsement of every policy position or point of view expressed by a
recipient organization. As is true of all non-profits we support, we conduct an annual evaluation of the merits of
each organization and reserve the right to initiate, sustain, or withdraw support at any time.
ExxonMobil believes that the risks of climate change are serious and warrant thoughtful action. Managing these
risks requires innovation and collaboration. We are dedicated to working to reduce the risks of climate change in
the most efficient way for society, while recognizing the importance of reliable and affordable energy in supporting
economic growth. We actively engage in constructive dialogue on climate change policy with a wide variety of
stakeholders, including governments, non-governmental organizations, academia and the public.
Policymakers around the world currently are considering a variety of legislative proposals and regulatory options
related to climate policies. ExxonMobil advocates an approach that ensures a uniform and predictable cost of
carbon; allows market prices to drive solutions; maximizes transparency to stakeholders; reduces administrative
complexity; promotes global participation; and is easily adjusted to future developments in climate science and
policy impacts. We continue to believe a revenue-neutral carbon tax is better able to accommodate these key
criteria.

ExxonMobil updates shareholders annually on our views on climate change and how the Company plans capital
expenditures, assesses and plans for policies limiting greenhouse gas emissions, and works to reduce emissions as
part of the Corporate Citizenship Report. The Company also periodically responds to specific shareholder requests.
Currently available reports and responses are viewable on exxonmobil.com.
A robust civil society requires the airing of different voices and perspectives as part of the nation’s ongoing public
policy debate. In light of the importance and implications of sound public policies, ExxonMobil will continue to
engage actively with stakeholders who have an interest in key issues that affect the Company and industry.
 

HPmatt

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Aug 18, 2013
Messages
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Dallas
XOM is a 'public' company - call SEC for requiring disclosure of 'copywrite' filings....


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solus

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Messages
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here nc
and you pulled the material from? fair attribution is given to SEC? or Exxon Mobile?

ipse
 
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