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Thread: Issue with Richmond Intl Raceway

  1. #1
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    Issue with Richmond Intl Raceway

    I went to a Prepper show there a couple weeks back. See below. Reply came from Security Director there. Sent him my phone number and he called me and we discussed. He indicated he was 40 years with Henrico County S.O. I am waiting on his email summary of our conversation. He did take the time to call me for discussion just before he left on vacation and said he would send summary on his return.

    Short story on our phone conversation was that RIR says no loaded firearms on property. He agreed I was correct in no signs. He indicated that would be corrected soon. 8 minute conversation basically ended that he was right and nothing was changing there and I could like it or stay away. I will stay away. I will discourage all who go there to find another venue for their shows.

    I am waiting on his email summary before copying to all the vendor I spoke with regarding shows at RIR.

    VCDL was also copied. They replied and seemed pretty interested in me keeping them advised.
    Copy to NRA Friends group as they have a dinner upcoming there in the next month or so.
    Additional letter and copy to Organizer of the show. Copy below.

    I received a reply from the organizer which is below.

    Va_Nemo



    May 7, 2016

    Richmond International Raceway Management EMAIL ONLY RIRInfo@RIR.com

    NPS Expo EMAIL ONLY Ray@NPSexpo.com
    Ray McCreary Info@NPSexpo.com

    NPS Expo/RIR Security/Firearm Possession Complaint

    Greetings:

    I attended the NPS Expo at the Richmond Va raceway earlier today. As I do nearly always and in compliance with Virginia law, I was open carrying my sidearm. As usual for me, I had checked for any firearm limits on the state law websites as well as the NPS Expo (NPSExpo.com) and Richmond International Raceway (RIR.com) websites. I also carefully inspected the doors for signs as well as carefully looking for such on the roads and parking lots. I found nothing.

    The only thing related to firearms was on RIR.com and that was they were not permitted in the grandstands at a race. This expo was certainly not in the grandstands and certainly not at a race.

    As I was walking around and speaking with the vendors I was accosted by an elderly gentleman who demanded to know if my gun was loaded. He was not in any uniform or wearing anything to indicate he was anything other than another attendee at the expo. Intending to be completely cooperative I advised him that it was. I asked him who he was and why he was asking. He advised me that he was there on “Fire Watch” and the raceway did not permit loaded firearms on the premises. Due to his lack of any identification type implements or attire I was a bit uncomfortable with complying with his statements and asked for a manager or someone higher up the chain of command.

    He advised that he could call his lieutenant and I requested he do so. Continuing to be as cooperative as possible I spoke with the lieutenant and he advised me that RIR did not permit loaded firearms on their property. We also discussed the things I mentioned above regarding firearms at the show.

    At one point he asked if I had a concealed weapon permit and I advised him I did not need one due to it being completely openly carried. He stated he could not see it despite it being a S&W Model 5906 in a half pancake holster and not under any type of shirt or covering and in no way hidden from any type of common observation. Apparently he was not looking or just not on the right side of me to notice it.

    Please advise me as to what the policy of RIR is regarding firearms being fully in compliance with state law. I will be awaiting your response.

    Sincerely
    ME signed by real name

    CC: NRA / Friends of the NRA dwells@nrahq.org
    Virginia Citizens Defense League pete@vcdl.org

    Copy sent to organizer of show


    May 7, 2016

    Mr Ray McCreary EMAIL ONLY ray@npsexpo.com
    info@npsexpo.com

    I believed it appropriate to send you a copy of a complaint regarding my attendance at the Expo at Richmond Int’l Raceway earlier today.

    I have attended several of the NPS Expos in Lakeland Fl and other places and always found them informative and engaging. I look forward to attending more.

    Should RIR reply that they prohibit firearms on their property I strongly encourage you to have no further dealings with RIR and move your Expos to another location in that area.

    I will also be contacting all the vendors at the Expo that I spoke with and obtained business cards from and be encouraging them to continue participation in your shows, but strongly discouraging them doing so should the Expo be held at RIR.

    Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Sincerely
    Me with real name

    CC: VCDL.org
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 05-25-2016 at 11:08 AM.

  2. #2
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    Response from Prepper Show Organizer

    Ray McCreary <Ray@NPSexpo.com>
    5/7/2016You
    You replied on 5/7/2016 8:22 PM.
    I was made aware of your situation and informed of thier policy. I am not sure what state laws dictate but at the RIR, guns may not be loaded or have a clip. They do have gun shows at that facility and I know that this rule is the same there. Unfortunately we just rent the facility and have no authority over the rules. I was also told that 2 miss fires have taken place at past gun shows from people not following the rules, so they are very vigilant as a result.


    Thanks for coming to the event and we hope to see you back.
    And my response back to him.

    Regretfully I will not be able to attend any events at that facility so long as that policy remains in effect.

    Sincerely
    Me, by name.
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 05-25-2016 at 08:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Well said and well done. Thank you for taking a stand.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    That is a new and perplexing problem.

    Have attended many gun shows at RIR over the years and the only reference remotely similar to this has been signs on the doors of the buildings housing the gun show. These read to the effect that no loaded guns were allowed in the gun show, all guns must be unloaded and zip tied. When asked about this rule the venue/gun show promoter said it was an insurance requirement. Never has an RIR position be indicated.

    Always thought it funny that a gun show didn't allow loaded guns (claiming safety and insurance) as one can buy both a gun and ammunition at the show.

    Over the years, I have attended Christmas shows, hunting expos, and a variety of other shows at RIR while open carrying and never, not once, had a problem.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is a new and perplexing problem.

    Have attended many gun shows at RIR over the years and the only reference remotely similar to this has been signs on the doors of the buildings housing the gun show. These read to the effect that no loaded guns were allowed in the gun show, all guns must be unloaded and zip tied. When asked about this rule the venue/gun show promoter said it was an insurance requirement. Never has an RIR position be indicated.

    Always thought it funny that a gun show didn't allow loaded guns (claiming safety and insurance) as one can buy both a gun and ammunition at the show.

    Over the years, I have attended Christmas shows, hunting expos, and a variety of other shows at RIR while open carrying and never, not once, had a problem.
    The old "insurance requirement" BS ... never have I seen where an insurance company required this .... He's lying. He's a liar ... don't even bother with liars.

    I cannot believe people still fall for this LOL.

    If you shoot someone at Walmart, is Wallyworld responsible? No.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 05-25-2016 at 02:43 PM.

  6. #6
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is a new and perplexing problem.

    Have attended many gun shows at RIR over the years and the only reference remotely similar to this has been signs on the doors of the buildings housing the gun show. These read to the effect that no loaded guns were allowed in the gun show, all guns must be unloaded and zip tied. When asked about this rule the venue/gun show promoter said it was an insurance requirement. Never has an RIR position be indicated.

    Always thought it funny that a gun show didn't allow loaded guns (claiming safety and insurance) as one can buy both a gun and ammunition at the show.

    Over the years, I have attended Christmas shows, hunting expos, and a variety of other shows at RIR while open carrying and never, not once, had a problem.
    Grape, I've never been to a gun show that didn't require all entering to have their guns unloaded and zip tied.

    They all claim insurance reason. One venue even required the magazine be emptied and ammo left at security desk in a zip lock bag.

    It's stupid.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    Grape, I've never been to a gun show that didn't require all entering to have their guns unloaded and zip tied.

    They all claim insurance reason. One venue even required the magazine be emptied and ammo left at security desk in a zip lock bag.

    It's stupid.
    I know, I know, and yes it is stupid.

    If no mags or ammo are allowed beyond the entry station, one could buy both inside the show w/o restriction.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    No guns, no business.

    The webbernets is a wonderful thing.

    Pass the word when a anti-liberty business is discovered.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The old "insurance requirement" BS ... never have I seen where an insurance company required this .... He's lying. He's a liar ... don't even bother with liars.

    I cannot believe people still fall for this LOL.
    Over the years, after knowing some of the show promoters pretty well, two of them showed me copies of the insurance coverage they'd purchased to protect their events. To make it easier for me to find, they highlighted the language that specified 'no loaded firearms". It was definitely there both times.

    I'm not disagreeing to be disagreeable, and certainly can't prove what I'm telling you. I obviously was extremely skeptical too, right up until I saw those policies with my own eyeballs.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is a new and perplexing problem.

    Have attended many gun shows at RIR over the years and the only reference remotely similar to this has been signs on the doors of the buildings housing the gun show. These read to the effect that no loaded guns were allowed in the gun show, all guns must be unloaded and zip tied. When asked about this rule the venue/gun show promoter said it was an insurance requirement. Never has an RIR position be indicated.

    Always thought it funny that a gun show didn't allow loaded guns (claiming safety and insurance) as one can buy both a gun and ammunition at the show.

    Over the years, I have attended Christmas shows, hunting expos, and a variety of other shows at RIR while open carrying and never, not once, had a problem.

    Likewise. I've attended other events there while open carrying. Never a race, though.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  11. #11
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    Still waiting on his email summarizing our conversation and their policy. No joy on receipt yet.

    Nemo

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    Still waiting on his email summarizing our conversation and their policy. No joy on receipt yet.

    Nemo
    I'm very inclined to think that the individual made up the "rule" on the fly either through lack of knowledge or to fit his own personal agenda.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Anyone live close to there? Take a ride by and see if there are any signs up anywhere?

    Nemo

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    Anyone live close to there? Take a ride by and see if there are any signs up anywhere?

    Nemo
    Don't think we should be concentrating on signs. No good has ever come from insisting that signs be posted.

    In this case, I am under the distinct impression that RIR does not have an anti-personal defense (No Guns) policy.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-27-2016 at 03:50 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I do not want the signs up either. But I think it appropriate to discover if they are there. Based on his statements to me that the lack of signage would be quickly corrected. I am in Lynchburg so I do not get there often.

    Nemo
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 05-27-2016 at 10:39 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    I do not want the signs up either. But I think it appropriate to discover if they are there. Based on his statements to me that the lack of signage would be quickly corrected. I am in Lynchburg so I do not get there often.

    Nemo
    And THAT is why we don't talk about signs. No signs are better than signs, every time.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    And THAT is why we don't talk about signs. No signs are better than signs, every time.

    TFred

    Unless its one of the below signs, otherwise I agree. So someone go look for them and PM me here if they have been put up. Give me another thing to gripe at him about and note in my email to all the vendors that I will be soon contacting to urge them to not partake in any show at RIR.

    Nemo

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  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    We recommend not even using the word "sign" in talking with people like that.

    Ask what the rule is and how you might see/read it.

    I presume you have not heard anything more from RIR following your phone conversation.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Nothing more. Unless I get something Monday, I will shoot him an inquiry Tuesday morning noting my request, his reply and anticipated time frame to receive it.

    Nemo

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    --snipped--
    Short story on our phone conversation was that RIR says no loaded firearms on property. He agreed I was correct in no signs. He indicated that would be corrected soon. 8 minute conversation basically ended that he was right and nothing was changing there and I could like it or stay away. I will stay away. I will discourage all who go there to find another venue for their shows.

    I am waiting on his email summary before copying to all the vendor I spoke with regarding shows at RIR.
    Still nothing? I'm getting the impression that he doesn't want to admit that he was wrong and hopes that you will tire of pursuing it.

    Suggest that you go up the food chain on this. He has had his chance to resolve the question/issue.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    User, is there any risk of charges of interfering with commerce for involving third party customers?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    User, is there any risk of charges of interfering with commerce for involving third party customers?
    I'm not User obviously; however, to answer the question presented:

    When a third party rents any part of what is already private property (RIR is not public property), they may legally make such rules as they wish (within the bounds of law). This ability is more real estate law than it is gun law.

    Examples: NASCAR says no guns in the grandstands, gun show promoters say no loaded guns inside the building they are leasing. Various home shows, the Christmas Show, and others do not directly address the issue.

    When a group, organization, or individual enters into a lease with RIR, the space that they have leased becomes their 'home' and we all recognize that for the most part we can make the rules in our own home.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Still no response. Email requesting such sent.

    Nemo

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