Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: No guns allowed in Cleveland during the GOP convention

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    17

    No guns allowed in Cleveland during the GOP convention

    I have read the previous post about no guns in the Q, but this appears to be more interesting. I am talking about the "Republican National Convention Official Event Zone Permit Regulations" released May 25, 2016.
    ...Within all Public Access Areas, the following items are prohibited during the Convention Period: (4) Any dangerous ordinance, weapon, or firearm that is prohibited
    by the laws of the State of Ohio;
    Now we are talking OUTSIDE on the public streets...just sounds ridiculous.
    Anyone with knowledge/expertise regarding this, please chime in.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Lynchburg
    Posts
    589
    Looking at the way its written I suggest that any legal firearm to take there today will be good during the convention.

    My analysis below.

    Section_III. Prohibited Items

    bunch of other stuff not really relevant deleted by me

    (4) Any dangerous ordinance, weapon, or firearm that is prohibited by the laws of the State of Ohio;
    Bold added my me. Based on that it appears that State law prohibited firearms are also prohibited during the Convention. Ergo, if it is not prohibited by State Law now it will not be prohibited then.

    Unless the State legislature there has some time bomb for the convention in place. I could be wrong. Do not rely on this as legal advise unless you get your legal advice from the internet. But you know if you read it on the internet it has to be true. No one puts anything bad up on the net.

    But if you carry there they will probably arrest you, jail you for 3 days until they can get you into a court then dismiss all charges and kick you out. But keep your weapon until they have to return it. Or not return it and it gets seized and recycled.

    Nemo
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 05-27-2016 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    17
    I am thinking there may be more to the convention rules. A friend told me something about special laws/rules where Fed (Secret Service maybe) could set up a very large zone (say, 10 square miles) where laws change from that of the current laws of the state. I understand the way it is written may seem like all is good, but I do not believe it would be applied that way. In other words, show up with a "usually legal open carry handgun" and find yourself in handcuffs very quickly.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Do you expect some type of suspension of gun laws for that event? The only "knowledge/expertise regarding this" that is necessary is sixth grade reading comprehension.
    Yes, I strongly believe (seeking someone with knowledge to confirm/correct) that "usually legal" open carry will NOT be allowed whatsoever at the convention within a 5-10 mile radius of the Q.
    Reading it...YES I agree...6th grade comprehension. However, applying it, Fed handcuffs.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville NC
    Posts
    751

    Prohibited items in the Public Access Areas

    As I read it, I can carry a firearm, but not my usual pocket knife or tennis ball.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Lynchburg
    Posts
    589
    You have my analysis. I dispute your friend. I do not believe it is possible for Sec Ser or FBI or anyone like that can check out and declare special temporary laws and limitations in an area for anyone or any reason. But as I noted you could end up arrested and jailed until Monday and such. I suspect it would make for a great civil action. Methinks I should check my calendar.

    I have to agree with gutshot. I suggest you may want to check with your friend's friend. They may recommend you hide under your bed and on election day come out and go vote for hiLIARy.

    Nemo

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,726
    18 USC 1752

    US v. Bursey, 416 F. 3d 301 - Court of Appeals, 4th Circuit 2005
    Bursey maintains that the area where he was arrested was not restricted within the meaning of the Statute, because there was no physical manifestation of the area's boundaries. He contends that the Statute's terms—"any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area"—require that such an area's boundaries must be physically demarcated. In so maintaining, he relies upon the statutory construction principles of noscitur a sociis ("[i]t is known from its associates") and ejusdem generis ("[o]f the same kind, class, or nature"). Black's Law Dictionary 608, 1209 (4th ed.1968). Under these canons of construction, "where general words follow specific words in a statutory enumeration, the general words are construed to embrace only objects similar in nature to those objects enumerated by the preceding specific words." See Wash. State Dep't of Soc. & Health Servs. v. Guardianship of Danny Keffeler, 537 U.S. 371, 384, 123 S.Ct. 1017, 154 L.Ed.2d 972 (2003) (internal quotations marks and alterations omitted). Applying these canons to the Statute, Bursey asserts that the term "otherwise restricted" must be construed to embrace only physical indicia of a restricted area's boundaries, much like the terms "posted" and "cordoned off." He also contends that, at the time of his arrest, there was no physical manifestation of the restricted area's boundaries, and that he thus did not violate the Statute.

    We need not determine whether, as Bursey contends, the Statute requires a physical demarcation of a restricted area. This is because, contrary to Bursey's assertions of fact, the boundaries of this restricted area were visibly marked. Indeed, the Magistrate Judge specifically found that the "law enforcement agents were stationed at the perimeters of the area." Verdict at 7. Stationing agents along an area's perimeter squarely falls within the plain meaning of the term "cordoned off," that is, "a line or series of troops or of military posts placed at intervals and enclosing an area to prevent passage" or "a barrier of any kind operating to close off, restrict, or control access." Webster's Third New International Dictionary 506 (1976). Pursuant thereto, the officers at the perimeters of the area were sufficient to make it a "cordoned off" and otherwise restricted area. As a result, there was no error in the trial court's ruling that the area surrounding Doolittle Hangar, in which Bursey was arrested, was a restricted area within the meaning of the Statute.[7]
    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...&as_sdt=3,36#r[8]

    In other words, you cannot enter the area without authorization or go through some sort of check-point.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Well, I think its clear that the GOP does not welcome gun owners and carriers. Regardless of what the law may say, why be a member of such a party?

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,270
    What is ridiculous, and unreasonable, is Cleveland prohibiting things that are already prohibited by the state law.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,726
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What is ridiculous, and unreasonable, is Cleveland prohibiting things that are already prohibited by the state law.
    It's put out there to reassure the lemmings that everything is right with the world.

  11. #11
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,865
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    It's put out there to reassure the lemmings that everything is right with the world.
    of course it is...just look at the candidates, all of them, including johnson & weld, as is Alice in Wonderland...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    If you won't accept the convention rules as written, why did you ask? Your friend seems to be the source of all of your information, ask him. Or did you think that another "friend" with more misinformation would be of some value? If you ask the question enough times, in enough places you will finally get the answer that you want to hear. You may even hear that you'd be well advised to hide under your bed during the convention.
    Where in hell did I say a friend is source of all of my information to get you to think "it seems" that way? Where did I say I won't accept the rules as written? ...I am simply asking for someone with better knowledge to chime in to give me better information, not just an interpretation, but how the rule will be practiced (someone reading this will work security/police or just be closer in the know). It is understood that you have no clue, but decided to criticize instead. I am reading various news that the Fed/Secret Service can declare an outside no guns perimeter. I have heard it could be like 5 to 8 square miles. I can accept (but don't agree with) no OC inside the Q, but outside in a large zone just does not seem right. I am just seeking information from someone in the know of how it will be applied/enforced.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Why do you think that it "just sounds ridiculous" for the City of Cleveland to prohibit things that are already prohibited by Ohio state law? Not only does it sound reasonable to me, I would think it would be required for them to do so.
    I also do not think it is just the city, but rather Feds/Secret Service that will apply some Federal law. Again, I really think there is more to this than being told.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    I do not see any member posting that they have switched parties (to maybe independent even) because the GOP will not allow carry.

    Until that time, the party will do nothing. They'll say that they support your RKBA and then take actions to strip you of your carry rights.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    307
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    It's put out there to reassure the lemmings that everything is right with the world.
    The City of Cleveland is acutely aware of its impotence under R.C. 9.68. They just want gun owners to know that they're on double-secret probation.
    Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,726
    How about that.....

    Federal Judge Throws Out Cleveland’s GOP Convention Security Plan
    By Byron Tau
    June 23, 2016 1:37 p.m. ET

    CLEVELAND—A federal judge on Thursday struck down the city of Cleveland’s rules limiting protests during next month’s Republican National Convention, finding the city’s strict security regulations violated the U.S. Constitution.
    U.S. District Court Judge James Gwin ruled the city’s establishment of a large zone around the July convention site within which protesters’ ability to demonstrate would be strictly limited contravened the Constitution’s guarantees of the freedom of speech and assembly.
    “Under the First Amendment, I do find that the city hasn't sufficiently, narrowly drawn the regulations to serve government interests,” Judge Gwin told attorneys at the conclusion of the two-hour hearing.
    He said he would follow with a formal ruling. Lawyers for the city indicated that they were considering an appeal.
    With the start of the Republican convention just weeks away, security officials and Republican organizers are bracing for large protests against and in favor of the party’s presumptive presidential nominee, Donald Trump.
    Large groups of protesters have descended on Mr. Trump’s past rallies, prompting sometimes violent clashes between the candidate’s supporters and opponents.
    The ruling sends the city back to the drawing board to craft a new security plan.
    At the heart of the lawsuit is a 3.3-square-mile “event zone” officials had drawn around the Quicken Loans Arena, site of most convention activity. Another, much smaller, perimeter established by the Secret Service will only be accessible those credentialed to enter the convention.
    Within the event zone, the city had banned all sound amplification systems except hand-held bullhorns, allowed only a single official speaking venue and restricted officially sanctioned parades to a single route.
    The American Civil Liberties Union sued the city of Cleveland on behalf of three groups who charged that the city’s rules improperly restricted the freedoms of assembly and speech. The lawsuit also alleged that the city had unreasonably delayed or denied protest applications. The progressive group Organize Ohio, the group Citizens for Trump, and the Northeast Ohio Coalition for the Homeless are the plaintiffs named in the suit.
    In their defense, city officials noted that demonstrators will be free to protest anywhere within the event zone so long as they don’t impede pedestrian or vehicular traffic or set up speaker’s platforms or sound systems.
    Cleveland officials said parade routes needed to be restricted to accommodate emergency vehicles in the event of a terrorist attack. A lawyer representing the city said sound systems were banned over concerns they could contain explosives.
    Within the event zone, the city bans a wide range of common items, including umbrellas with metal tips, large backpacks, rope, glass bottles, sleeping bags and coolers. These bans aren’t affected by the ruling.
    The city has prohibited weapons such as mace, swords, knives and even water guns from the event zone, but firearms will be allowed under a quirk in Ohio law. Guns won’t be allowed within the smaller secure zone around the arena that is protected by the Secret Service, however.
    Many of the groups who have applied for protests permits remain in limbo. Timothy Selaty, who is attempting to organizing a Citizens for Trump rally, said that the city’s inaction on his demonstration permit had hindered his ability to publicize the rally, line up vendors and finalize his plans.
    “They absolutely tied my hands and feet where I could not publicize it, I could not get it organized,” said Mr. Selaty.
    Write to Byron Tau at byron.tau@wsj.com
    So, the constitution is now a quirk in Ohio law.....
    Last edited by color of law; 06-23-2016 at 04:03 PM. Reason: addition

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    How about that.....



    So, the constitution is now a quirk in Ohio law.....
    +1

    The Constitution is a quirk to the entirety of the liberal MSM media machine... well except for where it enumerates the right to abortion and same sex marriage. Those parts aren't quirks nor is the part where the right to publish stupid crap on the internet shall not be infringed. But the rest of, especially the other stuff that shall not be infringed and anything about separation of powers is just a big ol' quirk. /s
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Still see no forum members switching parties due to this ... your party will not change otherwise. You can always go back later.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    199

    Demacraps convention

    I would like to see a few thousand open carriers at the Demacraps convention in Philly

  20. #20
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    To whomever asked about suspension of OC....here's your answer.

    http://usuncut.com/politics/clevelan...pen-carry-ban/

    U.S. Uncut

    POLITICSCleveland Police Call for Emergency Suspension of Open Carry Laws During Republican ConventionTom Cahill | July 17, 2016
    Facebook
    Twitter

    In anticipation of a week of chaos, the Cleveland Police Department is asking the Governor of Ohio for permission to suspend the state’s open carry laws during the Republican National Convention.

    “We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something — I don’t care if it’s constitutional or not at this point,” Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland’s police union, told CNN."


    Absolutely sickening.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cincy area, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    888
    Ohio Governor John Kasich was quick and concise in his reply to Cleveland: He cannot and will not suspend either Constitutional rights (U.S. and Ohio) or valid Ohio laws. The latter is in reference to Ohio Revised Code 9.68, statewide preemption of local gun laws, among others. Cleveland has twice challenged and lost in court, all the way up to the Ohio Supreme Court, ORC 9.68 legality.

  22. #22
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Cite?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Ohio Governor John Kasich was quick and concise in his reply to Cleveland: He cannot and will not suspend either Constitutional rights (U.S. and Ohio) or valid Ohio laws. The latter is in reference to Ohio Revised Code 9.68, statewide preemption of local gun laws, among others. Cleveland has twice challenged and lost in court, all the way up to the Ohio Supreme Court, ORC 9.68 legality.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Cite?
    CNN quote: Kasich, responding to the request, said: "Ohio governors do not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws as suggested."

    "The bonds between our communities and police must be reset and rebuilt -- as we're doing in Ohio -- so our communities and officers can both be safe. Everyone has an important role to play in that renewal," he said. unquote.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/politi...ty-open-carry/

    darn good response...

    ipse

    added: same cite, quote:...(added for clarity ~ Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association) ...I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point,...Loomis also said officers here would begin ramping up inspections and oversight over anyone who is holstering a weapon entering the downtown area, where the Republican convention is scheduled to begin on Monday.

    the union president is directing police activities after stating he doesn't care about citizens constitutional interests.
    Last edited by solus; 07-17-2016 at 08:06 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    CNN quote: Kasich, responding to the request, said: "Ohio governors do not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws as suggested."

    "The bonds between our communities and police must be reset and rebuilt -- as we're doing in Ohio -- so our communities and officers can both be safe. Everyone has an important role to play in that renewal," he said. unquote.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/politi...ty-open-carry/

    darn good response...

    ipse

    added: same cite, quote:...(added for clarity ~ Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association) ...I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point,...Loomis ale noto said officers here would begin ramping up inspections and oversight over anyone who is holstering a weapon entering the downtown area, where the Republican convention is scheduled to begin on Monday.



    the union president is directing police activities after stating he doesn't care about citizens constitutional interests.
    Did this idiot not take an oath to uphold our Constitution, what a tyrant... He should be fired yesterday for his anti constitutional rhetoric oh wait that is his right, however he wants to relieve others of their right... Isn't this what the British armies wanted to do some 240+ years ago... What a sadistic tyrant...
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Did this idiot not take an oath to uphold our Constitution, what a tyrant... He should be fired yesterday for his anti constitutional rhetoric oh wait that is his right, however he wants to relieve others of their right... Isn't this what the British armies wanted to do some 240+ years ago... What a sadistic tyrant...
    He had his fingers crossed !

    Really, the oath means nothing at all. And you'll see ... no official action will be taken against him.

    Make violating the oath a felony .... then maybe they'll think twice....maybe.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •