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Thread: New Jersey This is Wrong:CCL Permit Denied. Court Denies it Too

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    New Jersey This is Wrong:CCL Permit Denied. Court Denies it Too

    --edited by moderator--

    On paper, Lt. Col. Terry S. Russell, who has served 27 years in the Army and holds a senior position at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey, appears to be the perfect candidate for a concealed carry permit. However, he was recently deemed unworthy of such a license.

    Apparently, neither his expertise nor the fact that he works at a military base that has been under threat of terrorist attacks was enough for the state to grant Russell a permit. In denying the military man’s application for a concealed carry permit, Oceanport Police Chief Daniel W. Barcus said Russell was unable to identify a “justifiable need” because there had been no specific attacks or threats made directly to him. And the decision was ultimately taken to the Superior Court, where the police department’s decision was backed up.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ey-us-congress
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-31-2016 at 05:06 PM. Reason: There are good peple everywhere.

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    I pray OPie recognizes the denigrating epithet above and edits it.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Reported.
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    Why does the colonel need to prove anything? Historically our 2A rights were just that our2A rights. Bearing arms, and I think Alaska is close to the original intent, is like the freedom we have to buy any car we can afford, or a home we can buy. New Jersey has gone beyond what I know as 2A.May issue is totally unconstitutional, unless the person applying has a bad rap sheet. In fact we shouldn't need a permit. Congress has to fix this. They did in the case of Illinois a few years back. Here is a summary of that case.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...odd-vandermyde

    The tyrannical gun ban in NJ has to first go to a federal judge. I don't understand it. governor Christie kicks the can down the road. The people are not doing anything. All I know is that they have been voting in lawmakers who have been denying the residents their 2A. Where is the committee to challenge this in the courts? I guess he'll have to fight for his life assurance.
    Last edited by Law abider; 05-31-2016 at 05:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I pray OPie recognizes the denigrating epithet above and edits it.
    nawlllll, didn't occur...

    ipse

    added...OP is off and running on the illogical tangent once again...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-31-2016 at 05:57 PM.
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    Poor poor colonel .... he played the game and lost.

    He thinks he's special.

    He clearly believes that others need to show good cause to carry....otherwise he would have argued that such a requirement to demonstrate a need is 4-F itself.

    He took an oath and tossed it right into the trash IMO.

    Just my viewpoint on his case.

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    denial

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Poor poor colonel .... he played the game and lost.

    He thinks he's special.

    He clearly believes that others need to show good cause to carry....otherwise he would have argued that such a requirement to demonstrate a need is 4-F itself.

    He took an oath and tossed it right into the trash IMO.

    Just my viewpoint on his case.
    I hope he can use his rank to inform other soldiers they should not spend their money off base in that town to buy anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I pray OPie recognizes the denigrating epithet above and edits it.
    I don't know what forum rule i broke. Please educate me. Otherwise i wouldnt have written it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Congress didn't fix anything in Illinois!! Even the article that you linked to said that the Federal Courts did it. How many mistakes can a person make in one post?! This guy is giving legal advice to the legislators of New Jersey,
    but can't write rationally or respectfully. This is not a good representative for 2A. This is an embarrassment.
    Aren't they lucky that the fedcourt fixed the problem. Maybe the people in NJ should petition the court. The feds actually forced Illinois to comply with 2A. Cant get better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I don't know what forum rule i broke. Please educate me. Otherwise i wouldnt have written it.
    I don't know that you broke a forum rule, that's up to the moderator. You may have broken a rule of common decency, certainly in my mind and some apparently agreed. Ask them.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I don't know what forum rule i broke. Please educate me. Otherwise i wouldnt have written it.
    The opening line was edited by myself in the OP.

    Basically, it castigated all of the people in New Jersey.

    Forum rules #6 and #9 were considered in making that called decision.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The opening line was edited by myself in the OP.

    Basically, it castigated all of the people in New Jersey.

    Forum rules #6 and #9 were considered in making that called decision.
    The statements were supposed to mean that we do not deny rights in America. Comparing it to other nations and this is what NJ is doing. It is ok
    You own the forum. Too bad it was perceived as such.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The opening line was edited by myself in the OP.

    Basically, it castigated all of the people in New Jersey.

    Forum rules #6 and #9 were considered in making that called decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    The statements were supposed to mean that we do not deny rights in America. Comparing it to other nations and this is what NJ is doing. It is ok
    You own the forum. Too bad it was perceived as such.
    While a correction/edit was made, there was no penalty incurred. Still it is better to consider how our words might be perceived, than to explain after the fact.

    I don't think there is any state that doesn't in some way restrict/deny rights - some more than others. Rather than divide us for our differences, we should be seeking to help them within the structure defined by the owners of this site - implementing change through the legislatures and the courts. BTW - I am not an owner of OCDO, but do take a proprietary interest.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    That may be the most uninformed thing I have ever read on this forum. If it were true there would be very little to post about here at OCDO.
    Only of happy days OCing .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While a correction/edit was made, there was no penalty incurred. Still it is better to consider how our words might be perceived, than to explain after the fact.

    I don't think there is any state that doesn't in some way restrict/deny rights - some more than others. Rather than divide us for our differences, we should be seeking to help them within the structure defined by the owners of this site - implementing change through the legislatures and the courts. BTW - I am not an owner of OCDO, but do take a proprietary interest.
    Got it. Grape. But these infringements are frustrating

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    That may be the most uninformed thing I have ever read on this forum. If it were true there would be very little to post about here at OCDO.
    No not really. Compared to commie nations we are much freer.....so far.
    Last edited by Law abider; 06-02-2016 at 02:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While a correction/edit was made, there was no penalty incurred. Still it is better to consider how our words might be perceived, than to explain after the fact.

    I don't think there is any state that doesn't in some way restrict/deny rights - some more than others. Rather than divide us for our differences, we should be seeking to help them within the structure defined by the owners of this site - implementing change through the legislatures and the courts. BTW - I am not an owner of OCDO, but do take a proprietary interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Got it. Grape. But these infringements are frustrating
    Yes, indeed they are frustrating!

    I dare say that many (most?) user/members here on OCDO would shout triumphantly if tomorrow true Constitutional Carry became the law of the land from coast to coast. We know that isn't going to happen anytime soon - if ever.

    Meanwhile, we fight our local battles and right as many wrongs as we can. The local/state convention involvement is a good place to start and then on to the election process. Staying in touch with elected representatives through lobbying efforts adds to the positive outcome frequently.

    Problem is that creating and maintaining good relationships frequently involves some compromises along the way.

    The person who demands all w/o exception, frequently gets nothing and has burned his/her bridges behind themselves. Hate to see anybody become a ranting voice in the wilderness.

    However, every time we gain ground, we are retaking lost territory. Like the old slogan from General Electric said, "Progress is our most important product."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While a correction/edit was made, there was no penalty incurred. Still it is better to consider how our words might be perceived, than to explain after the fact. [ ... ]
    This thread is a great object lesson in careful grammar, spelling, typography. On the off chance OPie really was unaware of what he wrote, I am going to PM him and reveal our concerns.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    The majority of the residents of NJ are responsible for the plight of the good colonel.
    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!
    (9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE:
    Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.
    Are not the majority of the residents of NJ opposed to individual liberty, specifically the peaceable exercise of a enumerated right?

    The op linked article suggested that if the courts will not provide relief then perhaps congress could.
    If, like New Jersey, some parts of this country refuse to abide by the rules — and if the judges who are supposed to provide relief refuse to do so — there is a role for Congress in plugging the gaps.
    One member is counseled and another is not.
    This is not a good representative for 2A. This is an embarrassment.
    Ironic indeed.

    A example of New Jersey and her resident's aversion to individual liberty.
    Under state statute 34:3A-4:
    a. Because of the fire hazards directly associated with dispensing fuel, it is in the public interest that gasoline station operators have the control needed over that activity to ensure compliance with appropriate safety procedures, including turning off vehicle engines and refraining from smoking while fuel is dispensed;


    http://www.bergencounty.com/trivia-a...y-nj-1.1010289
    Again, the good colonel can fill up his lawn mower with gas but cannot fill the gas can himself.

    No, the majority of the residents of New Jersey are far from innocent bystanders in the colonel's plight.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...No, the majority of the residents of New Jersey are far from innocent bystanders in the colonel's plight.
    Exactly! (not to bash NJ, as your comment applies in a number of other states too)
    Last edited by BB62; 06-02-2016 at 09:21 AM.

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    That a "majority" of people (whether 51% or 65%) in NJ are responsible through elections for their plight is not the point. The point being that not all of those people are or should be the subject of our chagrin.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    And filling up my tank in NJ is still cheaper than in my state. I feel like AL Bundy in that one epi where he goes to full service when I fill up there. LOL

    Many NJ folks just don't know that they have natural rights; heck in my state its the same. I have edumacated many to this fact and, with some, the light bulb finally begins to glow.

    Now this colonel is likely not from NJ...so he has no excuse. He's a lizzurd. For sure. Most in the military, from my experience, are lizzurds. Happy to steal your guns if given an order to do so.

    And I do not know any state that respects our natural rights related to guns. NJ is just worst than most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ... The point being that not all of those people are or should be the subject of our chagrin.
    Why not?

    chagrin - noun cha·grin \shə-ˈgrin\: a feeling of being frustrated or annoyed because of failure or disappointment
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yes, indeed they are frustrating!

    I dare say that many (most?) user/members here on OCDO would shout triumphantly if tomorrow true Constitutional Carry became the law of the land from coast to coast. We know that isn't going to happen anytime soon - if ever.

    Meanwhile, we fight our local battles and right as many wrongs as we can. The local/state convention involvement is a good place to start and then on to the election process. Staying in touch with elected representatives through lobbying efforts adds to the positive outcome frequently.

    Problem is that creating and maintaining good relationships frequently involves some compromises along the way.

    The person who demands all w/o exception, frequently gets nothing and has burned his/her bridges behind themselves. Hate to see anybody become a ranting voice in the wilderness.

    However, every time we gain ground, we are retaking lost territory. Like the old slogan from General Electric said, "Progress is our most important product."
    Agree heartily

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    I got it. Nightmare caught my slip of the stroke on the keypad. Ah ha.
    Anyway I don't want to be off topic. our CC/OC brethren are suffering and the only option is that they have to move or work through the legislature but they are doing neither as far as I can see.

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