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Thread: A serious question for the nra

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    A serious question for the nra

    My friend Edwin Vieira, Jr. knows what he is talking about.
    My emphasis on this peculiar situation is not simply a matter of constitutional pedantry devoid of practical consequences. For, by widely disseminating its misreading of the Second Amendment among the general public, the NRA lends credibility to a most dangerous misconception—to wit, that Americans can secure for themselves “the Blessings of Liberty” by purely individual actions alone, when every page in the book of American political and legal theory and history teaches that popular sovereignty, popular self-government, and the “Blessings of Liberty” that go with them necessarily entail, and can be achieved and maintained only through, collective endeavors by We the People as a whole. No one who studies America‘s Colonial Charters, the Declaration of Independence, the constitutions of the independent States, the Articles of Confederation, the original Constitution, and even the Second Amendment can come to any other conclusion.
    http://www.edwinvieira.com/edwin286.htm

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So what's the question?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    the question is the title of the article.

    i am afraid if i were a NRA director and received the his tome (which the article's author calls a letter, i probably wouldn't respond either...

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    So what's the question?
    Alex, what is collectivism?

    In the quote box above, the first period occurs 12 words from the beginning. The second one, the only other one is seventy-five words later.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-06-2016 at 10:11 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
    Our greatest freedom as men is to choose our cause and choose our death.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    My friend Edwin Vieira, Jr. knows what he is talking about.

    http://www.edwinvieira.com/edwin286.htm
    Whatever it is that he is talking about (yes, I know, it's what he considers the unaddressed "militia" portion of the 2nd Amendment), his writing is far too verbose, involved, and full of $64 words to make the point I presume he is trying to make.

    Regardless of the accuracy of his assertion, and the value of his suggestions, they get lost in the above self-created morass.

    No wonder no response was forthcoming.

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The "bashing" of a gun rights group is verboten here.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The "bashing" of a gun rights group is verboten here.
    Please, what is "bashing," and what is it not?

    We can all say that bashing is criticism, but bashing is not synonymous with criticism, so what criticism is not bashing?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The "bashing" of a gun rights group is verboten here.
    Is pointing out that the NRA supported some of the worst anti-gun laws in the federal level bashing?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The Forum Rule:

    (12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS:

    Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
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  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Fair warning that is all. The ^^ is clarification...just sayin.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    It is a long letter and longer post in its entirety. It raises some interesting and well argued ideas and ideals. As BB62 alluded, it also reads very much like a 19th century monograph which modern audiences likely find tedious.

    Even if one accepts his arguments in toto, I think the letters are misdirected. The NRA as an organization and a body was not conceived nor developed for the proposed purpose except perhaps in a tangential manner of supporting such endeavors, once fully established and vetted, with marksmanship and firearm safety training.

    I find the underlying concepts of interest and worthy of lively discussion, but I do not see a realistic path to his proposition given real financial costs and federal and international law regarding arms and armament. Further, such proposition would require an astounding resurgence of 10th Amendment protection demands from the states and a return, domestically and internationally, to thinking of the United States of America as a peaceful compact of individual sovereign states rather than as a single nation of subservient states under a strong federal government. In short, it would require putting a lot of toothpaste back in the tube.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Our greatest freedom as men is to choose our cause and choose our death.
    I choose not to die. Death will probably catch up with me anyway, but it won't be by my choice.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  15. #15
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The NRA is now supporting delays for citizens on the no fly list, not bashing, just a fact. Nothing more is needed to be said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The Forum Rule:

    (12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS:

    Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    Ya can't carry if ya can't buy ! (well, for those that cannot make anywho). Could his post relate to this? The NRA? I rarely speak about this organization here, due to rule 12 !

    I would suggest before stating conclusions of a rule violation that you allow a poster to explain why it does not violate a rule? Seems fair.

  17. #17
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    Who creates the no fly list? How do you get on it? Is there due process involved before your rights are taken away arbitrarily? What if your name matches the one on the list?

    Little at a time...until it is all gone.

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