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Thread: Article discussing brandishing and firing warning shots ... a good read

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    Article discussing brandishing and firing warning shots ... a good read

    http://www.secondcalldefense.org/bra...-warning-shots

    At that crucial moment, you should do what you've been trained to do: stop the attack by shooting your attacker center mass until the danger is gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    http://www.secondcalldefense.org/bra...-warning-shots

    At that crucial moment, you should do what you've been trained to do: stop the attack by shooting your attacker center mass until the danger is gone.
    The article is a repeat of the same legal advice we've heard for years. And at a general level it probably isn't bad advice. But it is becoming a little more State specific than entirely generally applicable in this nation.

    For example, Utah law now includes provision specifically protecting the ability to tell or even show an aggressor you are armed without that action being a crime. (See Utah Revised Statutes, 76-10-506, especially (1)(b)(ii) and (3).

    This law reflects the reality that many defensive gun uses do not include shooting at the aggressor; the sight of the (previously concealed??) gun is sufficient for the aggressor to break off his attack. The CDC has found, " that most firearm incidents are not fatal". John Lott writes in his More Guns, Less Crime that:

    "[s]ince in many defensive cases a handgun is simply brandished, and no one is harmed, many defensive uses are never even reported to the police".

    Attempting to quantify this phenomenon, in the first edition of the book, published in May 1998, Lott wrote that "national surveys" suggested that "98 percent of the time that people use guns defensively, they merely have to brandish a weapon to break off an attack."


    --as quoted on Wiki Article about Defensive Gun Use

    If well over 90% of "defensive gun uses" involve something like brandishing without actually firing, then either most DGUs are illegal or illegitimate, or most criminals can spin and run faster than most gun owners can pull a trigger, OR maybe the laws in a lot of places regarding brandishing don't appropriately appreciate the defensive value of brandishing a gun. If there is an option I haven't considered, I'd like to hear what it is.

    Of course, opponents of private gun ownership will define DGU to be only those cases where a bad guy is killed, or maybe wounded. This minimizes the number of DGUs and causes criminal and accidental misuse of guns to be far more common than are DGUs. It seems natural to me that on an Open Carry forum most all would recognize the potential value of making a bad guy aware that an intended victim is armed and able to resist effectively. Obviously, OC does this passively without credible risk of accusations of "escalating". But referring to, exposing, or even "brandishing" a previously concealed firearm can--and according to Lott, in some 98% of cases does--have a very similar effect.

    Maybe it is time for RKBA activists to work on decriminalizing what appears to be the most common mode of "using" a gun defensively.

    EDIT to add: In the case of "warning shots" I can't disagree they are almost universally a bad idea. Maybe in some rare cases of being in the wilds and the threat being an animal, a very loud noise might serve the purpose to scare the animal off without material risk of where a bullet lands and while avoiding wounding and/or having to kill an animal.

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    Last edited by utbagpiper; 06-07-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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    The fact that armed citizens stop some 700,000+ crimes annually, while the number of shots fired is about 1/20th that amount, tells me that "brandishing" is not only occurring roughly 95% of the time, but that it's a highly effect deterrent, as well.

    That's not a plug for brandishing in general, as displaying a firearm is against the laws of all states. Then again, so is using a firearm. The key are the exceptions, such as "except when faced with imminent threat to life or limb."

    Personally, if I cannot simply leave the situation, I'll leave my firearm holstered until drawing it becomes absolutely necessary. That doesn't mean I will automatically fire. It does mean I will draw it only if absolutely necessary. At that point, the ball game goes into overtime. Will the perp back down? Will he continue, or worse, accelerate? If the latter two, then firing becomes the only remaining solution.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    I had a DGU recently. Road rage, the guy did not know/realize/care that we were in a school zone and I was only doing 20mph.

    I do not draw my weapon to intimidate. I do not draw my weapon to "change the conversation". I will only draw my weapon to stop the threat. If the BG stands down, that's good. If the threat continues, COM. Do not try to wound, you are not that good when adrenaline is washing your brain.

    If you draw a weapon, call 911. Always call 911. Get your side on record, as the first to call is usually the Good Guy. If you do not, it could come back to bite you.

    YMMV
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    +1!

    Bicycling armed in heavy traffic I was squeezed into the curb. I pursued and yelled at the driver, then called 911. Belatedly she called the cops. I prevailed.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-12-2016 at 11:00 AM.
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    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 06-12-2016 at 01:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    +1!

    Bicycling armed in heavy traffic I was squeezed into the curb. I pursued and yelled at the driver, then called 911. Belatedly she called the cops. I prevailed.
    I have always found when I was biking with a long gun slung over my back drivers was a bit more respectful
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Oh, me too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I have always found when I was biking with a long gun slung over my back drivers was a bit more respectful
    We do not promote long-gun carry on this forum, [emoji87] [emoji86] [emoji85]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    We do not promote long-gun carry on this forum, [emoji87] [emoji86] [emoji85]

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Why not? Whats the issue?

    Nemo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    Why not? Whats the issue?

    Nemo
    Please refer to the forum rules/regulation which you agreed to abide when you registered to use this PRIVATE not government website.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Please refer to the forum rules/regulation which you agreed to abide when you registered to use this PRIVATE not government website.
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    48 Nemo is a new guy. He may not have known, now he does. Welcome to OCDO Nemo.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    Why not? Whats the issue?

    Nemo
    Its not a forbidden subject (there have been exceptions for its limited discussion) but the focus of the forum is for support for handgun OCing.

    Just mentioning it ? I think that's fine. Many folks OC long guns and handguns together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I do not draw my weapon to intimidate. I do not draw my weapon to "change the conversation". I will only draw my weapon to stop the threat.
    When someone says, "draw my weapon to stop the threat," I read, "Draw and fire."

    The problem with this is that you're making a huge and often erroneous assumption, namely, that the bad guy knows you're carrying. I have repeatedly ascertained that others are often unaware of the fact that I am open-carrying. A black gun in a black holster outside of black pants is undoubtedly part of the problem, but even when I'm OCing in blue jeans, some people still don't notice.

    So, a bad guy is being a bad guy. You do nothing to draw attention to the fact that you're carrying, and he, entirely through his own fault, fails to notice you're carrying, and makes a threatening move/gesture towards you, one which could rightfully be interpreted as sufficient justification to use deadly force to stop the threat.

    Your next next course of action is to draw and fire, but you're just so darn good at it that the perp's eyes bug own a split second before your bullet parts his forehead.

    Was justice served?

    As a man of honor, I would say, "Hell no." That's almost as sneaky as shooting a man in the back.

    If the BG stands down, that's good. If the threat continues, COM. Do not try to wound, you are not that good when adrenaline is washing your brain.

    If you draw a weapon, call 911. Always call 911. Get your side on record, as the first to call is usually the Good Guy. If you do not, it could come back to bite you.
    Ah. I see you did not mean "draw and fire." Part of your "stop the threat" includes allowing the bad guy to recognize the fact that you're pointing a gun at him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Proper Defensive display of a firearm can stop many attacks before shooting is necessary.
    Good.

    Why are all these titled with "warning shot?" I thought the point involved, "before shooting is necessary?"
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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