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Thread: Stockbridge, Georgia police shoot armed homeowner after responding to wrong address

  1. #1
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    Stockbridge, Georgia police shoot armed homeowner after responding to wrong address

    Three Henry County police officers got a call reporting gunshots and a woman screaming in a neighborhood near Stockbridge about 1:30 a.m. Wednesday, a local CBS News affiliate reported.
    “Based on the directions given to the police officers there, they wound up at the residence of Mr. Powell,” said Scott Dutton, spokesman for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is investigating the shooting.
    The officers arrived and spotted William David Powell, who was armed with a handgun outside his home. An officer shot the 63-year-old in the neck after he refused officers’ orders to drop the weapon, the GBI said.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...after-respond/

    And in 2006, 92-year-old Kathryn Johnston was shot and killed when a group of undercover Atlanta police detectives forced their way into her home and she fired a warning shot at them. The detectives were acting on faulty information that illegal drugs would be found at the home. The officers were sentenced to prison for attempting to cover up the botched raid.

    http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime...omeowne/nrcj8/

    Dead men tell no tales.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-09-2016 at 02:26 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Caution: This site has no desire to become another Copwatch type repository. That fuction is adequately fullfilled by said site.

    Our primary purpose is to normalize open carry of a properly holstered handgun as we go about our normal, everyday lives.

    Is there a connect here - yes. Just don't want to see a litany of LEOs making what would appear to be mistakes on this forum.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
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    These are tragic cases, and in the case of lying about what happened, obviously criminal.

    I believe our rights to KBA as well as life and liberty generally would be well served by effectively eliminating para-military style raids on the part of police. I believe that in too many cases they are conducted not because they are the safest way to make an arrest, but because executing an arrest in that fashion makes it much easier to bootstrap into a full search warrant for the residence than if the suspect were arrested as he left to get a pizza. We would do well to push our State legislators for bills to eliminate these tactics.

    I suspect that in most cases, an incremental approach would be most successful. Impose limits on the types of crimes for which so-called "dynamic raids" can be used. Impose higher requirements for the reliability of evidence on which such warrants can be based. Impose requirements for constant surveillance for some time period before the raid can be conducted. Impose time limits on when raids can be conducted. Get enough limits and few enough situations would permit the use of dynamic raids that then an effective ban could be imposed. If there isn't an active shooter or a hostage whose life is in danger, don't force your way in. Wait them out and work to diffuse.

    Now, that all said....

    The lesson here is that when dealing with whom one reasonably believes to be peace officers, one ought to follow instructions. In a better world, peace officers would not use dynamic raids except in the most exigent of circumstances. In a better world, peace officers would be slower to shoot a man standing in his own yard (or almost anyone else for that matter). Of course, in a better world, we would not have violent criminals and the potential for governments to become tyrannical and over-reaching would be greatly reduced. If only men were angles or even if we were to be governed by angels.

    But alas, we live in the world we do. So we carry firearms to increase our odds of going home safely each day. How to actually use those firearms so as to maximize our chances of going home requires some careful thought.

    And because we live in the world we do, we need to also give some careful thought to how our firearms may need to be handled (or not) so as to minimize the odds of not surviving various types of encounter with those claiming to be police officers.

    This is not to relieve the police of their responsibilities in the least. Rather, it is merely to consider how to most likely survive when confronted by those claiming to be police.

    While an armed criminal is perhaps likely to turn tail and run when confronted with meaningful resistance, police officers prepared for resistance from criminals who are "armed and dangerous" may well be expected to react differently. What do we figure is the best strategy for the law-abiding gun owner in various cases?

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
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  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post


    What type of angle do you think would be best, acute, oblique or obtuse. I'd prefer to be a "right" angle, since I am almost always "right" anyway. I always try to avoid being obtuse or oblique.
    LMAOROF - Dots funny.

    Sorry Charles, my bad.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-10-2016 at 05:14 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    personally, if you ask certain forum members they might, just might say i am obtuse, eh mate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    What type of angle do you think would be best, acute, oblique or obtuse. I'd prefer to be a "right" angle, since I am almost always "right" anyway. I always try to avoid being obtuse or oblique.
    You got me there. The limitations of spell checker.

    I think women should be acute angles and angels. No idea about men as long as they avoid being obtuse.
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 06-10-2016 at 06:08 PM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Chances of the po-po to get me to drop my gun is about zero .... I have them to protect myself from them ...

    I have been asked to disarm by police, never have .. then they are left with this question: who can draw faster? Oddly ... they really don't want to learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Chances of the po-po to get me to drop my gun is about zero .... I have them to protect myself from them ...

    I have been asked to disarm by police, never have .. then they are left with this question: who can draw faster? Oddly ... they really don't want to learn.
    SWAT and dynamic entry teams generally have their firearms in firing position. And if not actual long guns, they are usually carrying sub guns or carbines, at least, while wearing body armor.

    Your claimed policy is not only hard to believe, but likely to be very bad advice for anyone to actually follow in the case of a SWAT raid on their home. Please consider on how the less experienced may be influenced into very dangerous behavior based on what you post. Fish story bragging is one thing. Encouraging others to do something very likely to get themselves killed is quite a different story and is neither funny nor cute.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    SWAT and dynamic entry teams generally have their firearms in firing position. And if not actual long guns, they are usually carrying sub guns or carbines, at least, while wearing body armor.

    Your claimed policy is not only hard to believe, but likely to be very bad advice for anyone to actually follow in the case of a SWAT raid on their home. Please consider on how the less experienced may be influenced into very dangerous behavior based on what you post. Fish story bragging is one thing. Encouraging others to do something very likely to get themselves killed is quite a different story and is neither funny nor cute.

    Charles
    "Neither funny nor cute" is precisely why the idea of taking other steps is being considered. Trying very hard to not be other than fair and impartial.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Chances of the po-po to get me to drop my gun is about zero .... I have them to protect myself from them ...

    I have been asked to disarm by police, never have .. then they are left with this question: who can draw faster? Oddly ... they really don't want to learn.
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    SWAT and dynamic entry teams generally have their firearms in firing position. And if not actual long guns, they are usually carrying sub guns or carbines, at least, while wearing body armor.

    Your claimed policy is not only hard to believe, but likely to be very bad advice for anyone to actually follow in the case of a SWAT raid on their home. Please consider on how the less experienced may be influenced into very dangerous behavior based on what you post. Fish story bragging is one thing. Encouraging others to do something very likely to get themselves killed is quite a different story and is neither funny nor cute.

    Charles
    Caveat lector.... Unless of course children are encouraged to participate here??
    I must be reading a different post ...I see nothing from "davidmcbeth" soliciting advice or offering encouragement. Ghost in the machine?
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    And here is another good plan; talking logically to davidmcbeth and expecting to get somewhere. Quite right, quite right.
    With some posters, responses are targeted less at the poster, and more toward less experienced third parties who may read the poster. Also to prevent certain material from being interpreted as representative of the legitimate RKBA community.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Victim, William David Powell, shot in the neck by an officer, died. Three cops, wrong house, armed homeowner shot and killed.
    Officer who shot Stockbridge man in wrong-address case identified

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/crime-l...ddress-/nrdnF/
    This story is not about our RKBA. Thread lock requested.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Victim, William David Powell, shot in the neck by an officer, died. Three cops, wrong house, armed homeowner shot and killed.This story is not about our RKBA. Thread lock requested.
    A story/report of this nature does relate to RKBA for purposes of illustration of how things can go wrong for good people and in this case is state specific.

    When such reports become excessive, of a repetitive nature, then a called decision will be invoked, reminding people we are not a CopWatch style site.

    However, your interest in keeping OCDO on target is sincerely appreciated.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-14-2016 at 01:56 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Considering their behavior, I'm pretty sure most, or at least these, cops are:
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    obtuse
    Last edited by ixtow; 06-17-2016 at 10:08 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    This story is not about our RKBA. Thread lock requested.
    Yes it is. The refusal should have been accompanied by dozens of rounds discharged in the direction of the cops. He might have had a slim chance to survive their attack if he had done so.

    Any such order should be met with duck, roll, cover as appropriate, accompanied by the discharge of rounds towards aggressor. Anyone ordering you to "put the gun down" has no desire but to kill you more easily. Respond appropriately or die.

    The battle is upon you. Denial will serve you as well in the microcosmic as the macrocosmic.

    This "order" is a trap. If your gun is in a holster, the cops are "ordering" you to grab your gun. Which they will then promptly shoot you for doing. That's the easiest way to justify murdering you...

    "He rapidly reached for his gun, so I killed him." Leaving out the part where you were "ordered" to do exactly that. Or, maybe, it was just another "furtive movement."

    I'm not in the military, there is no one alive who has the authority to "order" me to do a damn thing. Those who believe that they do cannot possibly have good intentions, and must be killed as soon as possible if I want to stay alive.

    Dawsey taught me that lesson, and I'm not about to forget it.

    If you let them kill all the witnesses, they'll be "finding" child porn on your computer the next day, and nobody will ask any more questions.
    Last edited by ixtow; 06-17-2016 at 10:15 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Yes it is. The refusal should have been accompanied by dozens of rounds discharged in the direction of the cops. He might have had a slim chance to survive their attack if he had done so.

    Any such order should be met with duck, roll, cover as appropriate, accompanied by the discharge of rounds towards aggressor. Anyone ordering you to "put the gun down" has no desire but to kill you more easily. Respond appropriately or die.

    The battle is upon you. Denial will serve you as well in the microcosmic as the macrocosmic.

    This "order" is a trap. If your gun is in a holster, the cops are "ordering" you to grab your gun. Which they will then promptly shoot you for doing. That's the easiest way to justify murdering you...

    "He rapidly reached for his gun, so I killed him." Leaving out the part where you were "ordered" to do exactly that. Or, maybe, it was just another "furtive movement."

    I'm not in the military, there is no one alive who has the authority to "order" me to do a damn thing. Those who believe that they do cannot possibly have good intentions, and must be killed as soon as possible if I want to stay alive.

    Dawsey taught me that lesson, and I'm not about to forget it.

    If you let them kill all the witnesses, they'll be "finding" child porn on your computer the next day, and nobody will ask any more questions.
    How about you actually read the AJC story I linked to. For those who are reading this, the homeowner had his gun in his hand, according to reports of what transpired.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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