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Thread: The Fourth Amendment in the Digital Age. NACDL Symposium Report. VIDEO

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    The Fourth Amendment in the Digital Age. NACDL Symposium Report. VIDEO

    Washington, DC (June 8, 2016) -- The Fourth Amendment has entered the digital age. New surveillance technologies and programs from GPS tracking devices to automated license plate readers to bulk data collection have upended traditional law enforcement practices and created new challenges for defense lawyers.

    To address the new threats to privacy posed by the digital age, the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL), the Foundation for Criminal Justice, the American University Washington College of Law, and the Criminal Law Practitioner presented a symposium entitled "The Fourth Amendment in the Digital Age." Criminal law practitioners, scholars, and technology experts discussed how digital searches, government surveillance programs, and new technologies are impacting Fourth Amendment protections in criminal cases as well as litigation strategies to challenge these developing threats to privacy. This report, prepared by University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law Professor Andrew G. Ferguson, offers an overview of the symposium and the substantive areas of concern related to new technological and legal changes that impact privacy in the digital age. In addition, the report offers detailed recommendations concerning legal strategy, public education, legislative advocacy, and policy in this area.
    [ ... ]
    The symposium report, The Fourth Amendment in the Digital Age, is available for download at www.nacdl.org/FourthAmendmentInTheDigitalAge. Research and publication of this report was made possible through the support of individual donors and foundations to the Foundation for Criminal Justice, NACDL's supporting organization.

    Video of the symposium is available at C-SPAN.org via the links below:[ ... ]

    The report 30 pages

    http://www.nacdl.org/FourthAmendment...italAgeReport/

    http://www.nacdl.org/fourth_amendmen...l_age_release/

    H/T John Wesley Hall FourthAmendment.com and Citizen for leading me to Hall's site.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    thanks for pointing this report out...

    ipse
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    Any truth to the article I read about Oklahoma cops draining your debit cards on traffic stops?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Some. They have the means to access your accounts in the course of a traffic stop and will remove funds owed the state. The original article may be at fourthamendment.com
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Any truth to the article I read about Oklahoma cops draining your debit cards on traffic stops?
    Yes, civil asset forfeiture.

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    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    By Tyler Durden at Zero Hedge.

    Tyler Durden's picture
    by Tyler Durden - Jun 9, 2016 10:31 PM
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    We have covered the disgusting topic of civil asset forfeiture numerous times (most recently here), but the latest move by Oklahoma police is quite simply shocking.

    As News9 reports,
    http://www.news9.com/story/32168555/...ion-of-a-crime

    You may have heard of civil asset forfeiture.

    That's where police can seize your property and cash without first proving you committed a crime; without a warrant and without arresting you, as long as they suspect that your property is somehow tied to a crime.

    Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards.

    It's called an ERAD, or Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machine, and state police began using 16 of them last month.

    Here's how it works. If a trooper suspects you may have money tied to some type of crime, the highway patrol can scan any cards you have and seize the money.
    The local police chief explains... "it's not about taking money..."
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...s-credit-cards
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-11-2016 at 12:23 PM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Okie cops only "have access" if you give them access.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Okie cops only "have access" if you give them access.
    When you are arrested custodially detained (whatever weasel words might be used) your Rights are suspended and you will be involuntarily searched.

    Your "give them access" crack is unworthy of any but McBeth. You can join him in OCDO purgatory ya' know.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    When you are arrested custodially detained (whatever weasel words might be used) your Rights are suspended and you will be involuntarily searched.

    Your "give them access" crack is unworthy of any but McBeth. You can join him in OCDO purgatory ya' know.
    Anyone can read the 4th amendment ... its self explanatory...it defines a proper search right there...its one that is performed after a warrant has been issued. Nothing more.

    OCDO purgatory ? You said it like its a bad thing.

    This forum is not a lizzurd free zone [LFZ] ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Some. They have the means to access your accounts in the course of a traffic stop and will remove funds owed the state. The original article may be at fourthamendment.com
    I've read a couple of articles on it. From what I've read, according to the state of Oklahoma, if you're stopped on suspicion of drugs, your bank account funds are now "owed the state." Correct me if I'm wrong, but technically, they can only withdraw those funds if you're found with a debit card on you. If you're found with a checkbook, it's a no-go, and they certainly can't march into your bank and withdraw the funds.

    The problem I have with that is that neither the presence of a debit card or a checkbooks constitutes the cash itself. Rather, both instruments under federal law are merely "promises of payment," and then, only if authorized by the account holder. The difference is that with a debit card, the transaction is more rapid than a physical check. The latter, however, has been able to be processed as an Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) via various e-check systems that scan the check and process it via EFT.

    My objection is one of legality: Cops cannot drain the bank accounts of someone stopped on suspicion of drugs. Yet they're doing just that by treating a debit card as if it were cash itself. It is not cash. In fact, legally, it requires the consent of the account holder to transfer funds. If cops cannot forge a person's check, then cashing out their debit card is identical in principle to forging a check. In both circumstances, transferring the funds requires the consent of the account holder. In the case of the check, it is by signing the check. In the case of the debit card, it is by entering a PIN. If the cops have found a way of draining the funds without the PIN, then that is equivalent to cashing a check without a signature.

    Although I understand the intent behind depriving criminals of their operating funds, I do not believe our Founding Fathers EVER intended for cops to yank it all merely on suspicion and without trial or due process of law. In fact, such action may very well deprive the the individual of the means to hire legal representation, thereby forcing them to use the court-appointed attorney. While they do try, they often fall far short of private lawyers.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I've read a couple of articles on it. From what I've read, according to the state of Oklahoma, if you're stopped on suspicion of drugs, your bank account funds are now "owed the state." Correct me if I'm wrong, but technically, they can only withdraw those funds if you're found with a debit card on you. If you're found with a checkbook, it's a no-go, and they certainly can't march into your bank and withdraw the funds.

    The problem I have with that is that neither the presence of a debit card or a checkbooks constitutes the cash itself. Rather, both instruments under federal law are merely "promises of payment," and then, only if authorized by the account holder. The difference is that with a debit card, the transaction is more rapid than a physical check. The latter, however, has been able to be processed as an Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) via various e-check systems that scan the check and process it via EFT.

    My objection is one of legality: Cops cannot drain the bank accounts of someone stopped on suspicion of drugs. Yet they're doing just that by treating a debit card as if it were cash itself. It is not cash. In fact, legally, it requires the consent of the account holder to transfer funds. If cops cannot forge a person's check, then cashing out their debit card is identical in principle to forging a check. In both circumstances, transferring the funds requires the consent of the account holder. In the case of the check, it is by signing the check. In the case of the debit card, it is by entering a PIN. If the cops have found a way of draining the funds without the PIN, then that is equivalent to cashing a check without a signature.

    Although I understand the intent behind depriving criminals of their operating funds, I do not believe our Founding Fathers EVER intended for cops to yank it all merely on suspicion and without trial or due process of law. In fact, such action may very well deprive the the individual of the means to hire legal representation, thereby forcing them to use the court-appointed attorney. While they do try, they often fall far short of private lawyers.
    If someone puts a gun to your head, would you tell them your PIN?

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    If someone puts a gun to your head, would you tell them your PIN?
    "If?" The road to Hell is paved with what-ifs.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    When you are arrested custodially detained (whatever weasel words might be used) your Rights are suspended and you will be involuntarily searched.

    Your "give them access" crack is unworthy of any but McBeth. You can join him in OCDO purgatory ya' know.
    Shallow thinking is a sign of not having read well...even though you obviously are well read.

    It appears that you, unlike me, carry these plastic items with you, so a Okie cop could drain your bank account(s) from the side of the road.

    Your choice.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "If?" The road to Hell is paved with what-ifs.
    The point is, that theft is theft.

    Since the police are not allowed to forge your signature on a check, the police have no business forcing you to use your PIN to help them clean out your bank accounts.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    If someone puts a gun to your head, would you tell them your PIN?

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    supposedly cost the fbi $1m to get the code to a fone and this was after they put the gun to apple's corp head...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    supposedly cost the fbi $1m to get the code to a fone and this was after they put the gun to apple's corp head...

    ipse
    Banks normally hand over the accounts of others if government agents ask. Warrants not required in their minds.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Asset forfeiture is from admiralty law, also called maritime law. It is a combination of U.S. and international law that covers all contracts, torts, injuries or offenses that take place on navigable waters. Well that was what it use to be. But yet again, the supreme court brought maritime law onto the land.

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    I live on an Island where our school board must consider and take advantage of US admiralty law through the reverse-Erie doctrine. Now that I think of it, our community healthcare system is freighted with admiralty law.

    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Asset forfeiture is from admiralty law, also called maritime law. It is a combination of U.S. and international law that covers all contracts, torts, injuries or offenses that take place on navigable waters. Well that was what it use to be. But yet again, the supreme court brought maritime law onto the land.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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