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Another Case Of Unsecured Handgun

ixtow

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Are we to ban rope, sleeping pills and a long list of cleaning supplies too?

I person bent on suicide will find a way.

Would it work to just make committing suicide illegal?
I've been there. 12ga in my mouth.

Ironically, you know what stopped me?

The fact that it would have been used as an excuse to strip others of their Rights. Even in death, I would still be twisted to the will of evil... No way. Not gonna happen. I won't let me be used for that.

And so, I understand that pain is worth it, and that my own life is not valuable unless I use it for good, and that this life is not really my own, and I live to fight another day...

Amazing what you can learn from depression, if you're not selfish.
 

ixtow

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An internet search for "suicide and altitude" will reveal that there exists a major correlation between the altitude at which one lives and the rate of suicide.
Correlation is not necessarily causation.

You'll notice there is also a correlation between population density. But then, there's Japan... Clearly, Altitude and Population Density are not the cause, even if they correlate. Also, the sky was blue on all occasions...

Some people can't handle isolation, being with self...

Regardless, it's still not the gun's fault.

But why is the mom in trouble and why should she be?

If she had found her daughter in the garage with the car engine running, would she be in trouble for leaving the car keys on the table where her 15 year old daughter (who might well have a learner's permit or even driver license in certain States could get to them?

If her daughter had cut her wrists and bled to death in the shower would mom be in trouble for leaving razor blades where a 15 year old (who can get an abortion in many States without even parental notification, much less consent) could get to them?

If her daughter had tied a plastic bag around her head or a noose around her neck, would mom be in trouble for not keeping those household items locked up?

Robin Williams, the only Democrat I miss, nailed it:

"I used to think that the worst thing that can happen in life is to end up alone, it's not. The worst thing that can happen is to end up with people who make you feel alone." - Robin Williams.

For me, being around people is worse than isolation, because it shows me that even in a crowd, I'm still alone when surrounded by these empty animals.

It's much less potent when not surrounded by horrible people.

I understand being suicidal. I spent most of my life that way. Surrounded by garbage people.

It's still not the gun's fault.
 
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solus

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ixtow, extremely sorry to hear about the demons you have faced during your lifetime which led to your past contemplated of self harm and am truly glad you have apparently found solace in your life to keep your internal balance so we can have these types of continuing discussions.

ipse
 

HPmatt

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Dallas

And it is the same do-gooders that want to make it very difficult, if not illegal, for drugs t/b made for State-sanctioned executions of those on Death Row.


I have never been had the misfortune to be seriously depressed, but have two reference items I have learned:

“The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night.” – Friedrich Nietzsche

Faustus part of Ch 14, by Christopher Marlowe - after selling his soul for cunning and now the bill is due...

Now hast thou but one bare hour to live,
And then thou must be damn’d perpetually!
Stand still, you ever-moving spheres of Heaven,
That time may cease, and midnight never come;
Fair Nature’s eye, rise, rise again and make
Perpetual day; or let this hour be but
A year, a month, a week, a natural day,
That Faustus may repent and save his soul!
O lente, lente, curite noctis equi.[Slowly, slowly run, o horses of the night]
The stars move still, time runs, the clock will strike,
The Devil will come, and Faustus must be damn’d.
O, I’ll leap up to my God! Who pulls me down?
See, see where Christ’s blood streams in the firmament!
One drop would save my soul—half a drop: ah, my Christ!
Ah, rend not my heart for naming of my Christ!
Yet will I call on him: O spare me, Lucifer!—

Faustus ends up in the hot place when midnight comes...
 

Law abider

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Ellsworth Wisconsin
Many studies show that when guns are not available people bent on suicide find some other way.

In my home and the home I grew up there were always firearms readily available.

No this should not be about the firearm.

But anti's always like to place the blame on the object instead of the cause.

The lock them up and away is just another ploy by the anti's.

I agree. They do like to place blame on the object. But in today's climate of blaming the object, it could have been a car driven over a cliff, the mom may loose her gun. A good point firearms!
 

Law abider

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Ellsworth Wisconsin
But why is the mom in trouble and why should she be?

If she had found her daughter in the garage with the car engine running, would she be in trouble for leaving the car keys on the table where her 15 year old daughter (who might well have a learner's permit or even driver license in certain States could get to them?

If her daughter had cut her wrists and bled to death in the shower would mom be in trouble for leaving razor blades where a 15 year old (who can get an abortion in many States without even parental notification, much less consent) could get to them?

If her daughter had tied a plastic bag around her head or a noose around her neck, would mom be in trouble for not keeping those household items locked up?

200 people a year die in this nation from inadvertent overdose of acetaminophen. While most ultimately die from liver failure a short time after the overdose, they died nonetheless. If a 15 year old girl (who probably self medicates every month for menstrual issues) downs an entire bottle of Tylenol and dies, does mom get in trouble for not having the OTC fever reducer locked up?

My point is, why do we--as gun owners--allow guns to be treated so very differently than every other household object that might be dangerous?

We need to stand up against laws and social stigma. And a big part of that is to stop throwing our own to the wolves every time one of them has something bad happen with a gun. Whether an accident (that could have been prevented with 100% due diligence) or a theft or suicide by a family member, we've got to get off our collective high horses.

Culturally, we tend to be much harder on fellow gun owners for imperfection than we are on fellow drivers.

Let's not be part of attacking the RKBA.

Charles
I agree as I pointed out to Firearms. Unfortunately the progressives have an upper hand in this issue: lock your guns away. Unfortunately i have to lock my guns away when I am not home. I need to get my wife and daughters to a gun safety class so they are not fearful of my pistol and get a gun they are comfortable with. Funny thing. When we are out and about they feel safe with me toting my gun.
 

utbagpiper

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I agree as I pointed out to Firearms. Unfortunately the progressives have an upper hand in this issue: lock your guns away. Unfortunately i have to lock my guns away when I am not home. I need to get my wife and daughters to a gun safety class so they are not fearful of my pistol and get a gun they are comfortable with. Funny thing. When we are out and about they feel safe with me toting my gun.

The progressives do not have the upper hand. They are clearly on the defensive. Years ago, murders of JFK, RFK, and MLK resulted in the GCA of '68. Today, mass shootings result in increased sales of guns and soaring stock prices of gun manufacturers. The last major federal infringement of our RKBA in '94 resulted in the Democrats losing control of the House for the first time in 40 years. We have federal liability protection for gun manufacturers, shall issue is the norm across the nation, and 10 States now allow carry of a concealed firearm without needing a permit at all. Most politicians would rather talk about changing SS than attacking RKBA.

A person who is uncomfortable around guns doesn't need the guns to be locked up, unless s/he is intent on handling the guns.

A gun on a closet shelf poses no more problem to an untrained person than a gun in a safe...unless the untrained person handles the gun. Which why would they do if they are fearful?

There are very good reasons to lock up firearms including to prevent theft and to secure them against those who are not trained and cannot be trusted to leave them alone. Keeping them out of the hands of person with suicidal or criminal issues is also a very good reason.

But I don't see where this case applies to any of those. A 15 year old is plenty old enough to have access to firearms if she has been trained and demonstrated competency. If there were not warning signs about suicide, then there is no reason to keep guns locked up and away from the 15 year old.

To suggest that the mom should have had her guns locked up is to buy into the progressive, gun hating non-logic that any bad thing that happens is prima facia evidence that not enough was done to keep that bad thing from happening. That just isn't so in some cases and we in the RKBA community need to stand firmly against such rhetoric.

If there is solid evidence the young lady had shown suicidal tendencies, then I'll agree mom should have secured the gun away from her. Lacking that, I will not accept a moment's culpability on the part of the mom. A young lady made a tragic decision, without warning. Nobody's fault but her own.

Secure storage is a slippery slope toward losing RKBA. Give an inch the antis will take a mile. If the actual cost of storage that meets their demands doesn't place gun ownership outside your reach, the liability they will impose for any misuse of your gun (even if it took thieves 3 hours with power tools to breach your safe) will.

We take reasonably storage precautions based on our individual circumstances. That is all that should ever be required.

Charles
 
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solus

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The progressives do not have the upper hand. They are clearly on the defensive. Years ago, murders of JFK, RFK, and MLK resulted in the GFA of '68. Today, mass shootings result in increased sales of guns and soaring stock prices of gun manufacturers. The last major federal infringement of our RKBA in '94 resulted in the Democrats losing control of the House for the first time in 40 years. We have federal liability protection for gun manufacturers, shall issue is the norm across the nation, and 10 States now allow carry of a concealed firearm without needing a permit at all. Most politicians would rather talk about changing SS than attacking RKBA.

snipp...

Charles

mate, confused on your definition of GFA of '68, i am sure you experienced a typo and meant GCA = Gun Control Act whose aim primarily focuses on regulating interstate commerce in firearms by generally prohibiting interstate firearms transfers except among licensed manufacturers, dealers and importers to stop mail order firearm sales.

but mate, not sure of the meaning of your statement, quote: last major federal infringement of our...in '94 unquote? were you meaning 93 where the GCA was modified by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968

oh you are welcome, your misinformation has been once again corrected for you.

ipse
 

utbagpiper

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Utah
mate, confused on your definition of GFA of '68, i am sure you experienced a typo and meant GCA = Gun Control Act

Congrats. You found a typo. And now you feel superior for pointing it out. Thank you spelling Nazi who can't even manage to use capitalization, punctuation, or pronouns ("man adjusting their [sic] gun shoots themselves [sic] in the foot") in accordance with proper English rules.

but mate, not sure of the meaning of your statement, quote: last major federal infringement of our...in '94 unquote? were you meaning 93 where the GCA was modified by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act?

I was referring to the Scary Looking Gun Ban of 1994 (inappropriately called The Federal "Assault Weapon" Ban of 1994) the passage of which lead quite directly to the Democrats losing control of the House of Representatives for the first time in some 40 years as I stated in my original post. I had assumed that most all fully literate adults who were actually part of the RKBA community would immediately recognize the reference given the year (1994) and the results it had on who controlled Congress (Demos lost control for first time in 40 years).

By utterly failing to make that connection, you've revealed quite clearly that you are not in my target audience. I'll let you decide which of the qualifiers don't apply to you.


oh you are welcome, your misinformation has been once again corrected for you.

Actually, once again you've revealed that you are an insecure troll who cares more to tear others down than to offer anything constructive to this site. On the rare occasion you do offer something half-way useful, you sound so sanctimonious as to be insufferable.

Had you asked for clarification, or even provided correction, in a polite manner, I'd have happily provided that clarification and accepted any correction in similar polite manner. But when you write from a position of self-importance and superiority, I will take pleasure in pointing out where you stepped in the horse hockeys.

It is about time to make you the first and only person to go onto my ignore list.

Good day troll.

Charles
 
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solus

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mate, thanks for your standard, depreciating commentary, as always, it is appreciated...

ya know, since it wasn't specifically called out except in an obtuse reference, i wouldn't have thought of The Federal "Assault Weapon" Ban of 1994 which wasn't attached to the original GCA statutes, would have even been considered an infringement to JQPublic; but rather the Brady act, attached to the original GCA in 93 which mandating a brand new concept to our citizens of federal background checks on firearm purchasers as well as imposed a five-day waiting period on firearm purchases, might, just might have be a far greater impediment to our society.

especially with the topic sentence of your paragraph talking about GCA implementation coupled with a typo i thought perhaps you made another typo with the year.

ipse

.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
...

For me, being around people is worse than isolation, because it shows me that even in a crowd, I'm still alone when surrounded by these empty animals.

It's much less potent when not surrounded by horrible people.

I understand being suicidal. I spent most of my life that way. Surrounded by garbage people.

It's still not the gun's fault.
Was (is?) your ability to travel denied? Are you forbidden to extricate yourself from undesirable situations? Have you no free will and the ability to exercise it? If you remain "surrounded" when in a crowd do you continue to have thoughts of harming yourself?

Agree, it is not the gun's fault.
 

ixtow

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Messages
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Suwannee County, FL
Was (is?) your ability to travel denied? Are you forbidden to extricate yourself from undesirable situations? Have you no free will and the ability to exercise it? If you remain "surrounded" when in a crowd do you continue to have thoughts of harming yourself?

Agree, it is not the gun's fault.
At the time, yes. I was stripped of my freedoms by weaponized money. Every penny earned, instantly extorted. Money is life in this society. Killing is viewed differently from the prevention of life, even though they are the same thing. Money is the weapon of tyrants and well-dressed degenerates. Without giant stacks of it to pay off the extortionists, you have no choices, no freedom, nothing. A slave with no hope.

I took extreme measures to remove myself. Best move I ever made. Never going back to the hell called "normal." ***k anyone who lives there.
 
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