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Thread: a new "gun control" group for veterans, Gen. David Petraeus & ex astronaut Mark Kelly

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    a new "gun control" group for veterans, Gen. David Petraeus & ex astronaut Mark Kelly


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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I think this veteran has had just about enough of these groups trying to "help" me.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    General Betray US. 'Nuff said. TRUMP U establishment!

    Gen. David Petraeus and retired astronaut Mark Kelly announced Friday they are forming a new gun control group for veterans. The Veterans Coalition for Common Sense will push to strengthen gun background check laws and help prevent veterans from committing suicide. It pointed to several alarming statistics about the military and gun violence.

    From the link above.
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    As I said, lizzurds are everywhere ....

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I think this veteran has had just about enough of these groups trying to "help" me.
    hear hear...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Mark Kelly calls for the gov't to protect our rights by infringing our rights. I've come to expect such fallacious and nonsensical argument from him. It is sad to see Petraeus jump on the infringement band wagon.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Mark Kelly calls for the gov't to protect our rights by infringing our rights. I've come to expect such fallacious and nonsensical argument from him. It is sad to see Petraeus jump on the infringement band wagon.
    might be part of his penance for his 'opps'

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I read the article. Mark Kelly's comments are particularly enlightening, revealing that his knowledge of the statistical incidence of gun-related injuries and deaths is rooted in idealism and hype, rather than fact.

    In short, despite the fact that he's an astronaut, when it comes to the facts surrounding firearms, he's a blithering idiot.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    All statistical conclusions are only probable proofs, half-proofs.

    Please read The Science of Conjecture: Evidence and Probability Before Pascal that reveals the big lie told again and again about statistics and frequentist statistics. You cannot know the next flip of a fair coin.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I read the article. Mark Kelly's comments are particularly enlightening, revealing that his knowledge of the statistical incidence of gun-related injuries and deaths is rooted in idealism and hype, rather than fact.

    In short, despite the fact that he's an astronaut, when it comes to the facts surrounding firearms, he's a blithering idiot.
    That pretty much sums up Kelly.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Since the Apollo program, being an astronaut is a purely political attainment once meeting the qualifications. Kelly deserves zero extra status for it. Much can be said for any Army officer that attains flag rank outside of a field promotion during wartime. And that pretty much sums up the guys that want to "help" me by increasing the name they have for themselves.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Gen. David Petraeus and retired astronaut Mark Kelly announced Friday they are forming a new gun control group for veterans. The Veterans Coalition for Common Sense will push to strengthen gun background check laws and help prevent veterans from committing suicide. It pointed to several alarming statistics about the military and gun violence.

    From the link above.
    Before I click on the link, does it say anything about the gun violence by the US after the now-debunked Gulf of Tonkin incident? The 250K Iraqi civilian dead (UN estimate)?

    Seems to me that veterans are not the biggest concern for "gun violence." Seems to me the fed gov itself is the biggest perp of "gun violence."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    All statistical conclusions are only probable proofs, half-proofs.

    Please read The Science of Conjecture: Evidence and Probability Before Pascal that reveals the big lie told again and again about statistics and frequentist statistics. You cannot know the next flip of a fair coin.
    No, but you can predict the results of the next x number of flips, including both distribution and variation.

    The reason the titles of both textbooks on the subject says, "Probability and Statistics" is because while they're related subjects, they remain distinctly istinctly separate issues. The simple answer is that probability deals with predicting the likelihood of future events, while statistics involves the analysis of the frequency of past events. Another way of putting it is, "Probability is primarily a theoretical branch of mathematics, which studies the consequences of mathematical definitions. Statistics is primarily an applied branch of mathematics, which tries to make sense of observations in the real world." - source

    By the way, Franklin's book is an expose' of how people before counted frequency and determined probability Pascal and Fermat's discovery of the mathematics of probability in 1654.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    [ ... ]By the way, Franklin's book is an expose' of how people before counted frequency and determined probability Pascal and Fermat's discovery of the mathematics of probability in 1654.
    It is more than that.

    The mathematics of probability discovered by Pascal and Fermat are models of repeated events, a fiction. The model, their model, is founded on induction that fails to account for The Black Swan unique event.

    As others, California Right To Carry et al, here have noted, our studies must go deeper than the fly covers of the books that we reference. Otherwise we get a synthesis of UTbaggagger and McBeth.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Protecting Veterans from self harm

    Oh darn. The military and veterans organizations are worried about me harming myself after serving my country. Yes, restricting my ability to purchase and own a gun will definitely prevent me from hurting myself. As a Veteran I am not smart enough to come up with other ways to self harm myself....Oh wait as a RN I can come up with many ways. Hanging come to mind as a cheap and effective manor, as does jumping from a tall building.

    My rant. Forgive me.

    Michael

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerBast View Post
    Oh darn. The military and veterans organizations are worried about me harming myself after serving my country. Yes, restricting my ability to purchase and own a gun will definitely prevent me from hurting myself. As a Veteran I am not smart enough to come up with other ways to self harm myself....Oh wait as a RN I can come up with many ways. Hanging come to mind as a cheap and effective manor, as does jumping from a tall building.

    My rant. Forgive me.

    Michael
    many, many, many years ago on one of the 'tent style, revival' Gospel radio station's broadcast on AM w/static and such, a preacher was interviewing another evangelist about how he got into preaching...

    in broken voice the man answered he was in great distress so went to the top of the highest building in town ~ 10-15 stories, and jumped...

    the interviewing evangelist asked anxiously...what happened...individual answered by saying on the way down 'i changed my mind' and asked God to save me!

    even more excitedly the evangelist says so what happened...individual says i landed feet first and drove my knee caps up to my ears, but i lived and i now limp a bit but i am so grateful, I preach the Word...

    moral...make sure the building is high enough...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I saw a few different posts from conspiracy types about this new gun control group and the Pulse nightclub slaughter. In short, they questioned the timing.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It is more than that.

    The mathematics of probability discovered by Pascal and Fermat are models of repeated events, a fiction. The model, their model, is founded on induction that fails to account for The Black Swan unique event.
    Hardly. Measures of dispersion are an integral part of statistics. By the way, you're still confusing probability with statistics.

    Probability involves using the knowledge of any system, whether that be as simple as flipping a coin, or as complication as a deck of cards and multiple players under the rules of Texas Hold 'Em, to predict the likelihood of future events. Inherent within the science of probability is the fact that predictions are not absolute. Thus, you certainly can flip a penny fifty times with it landing heads all fifty times. But the probability of that happening is cut in half each flip. This, it's 50% for the first flip, 25% for the second flip, 12.5% for the third, etc. The probability that it will land heads all fifty flips is 8.88x10-14%. Science never says that it's "impossible." Science says that it's "highly improbable," and because it is indeed science, and not "a fiction" as you errantly claim, science also tells us the precise value of the probability.

    Statistics, meanwhile, is the measure of historical information in a way that provides meaningful analysis.

    As others, California Right To Carry et al, here have noted, our studies must go deeper than the fly covers of the books that we reference.
    My studies include a Master of Science in Management, a principle component of which is the thorough understanding of both probability and statistics. That's two years of hard labor, er., study, and I went deep enough to earn a 4.0, graduating Summa Cum Laude. Prior to that I studied engineering statistics (full year), business statistics (another full year), graduate-level statistics (three classes, each with its own 1,000+ page textbook). Somewhere along the way I became a registered statistician. Alas, that was before Uncle Sam asked me to fly airplanes, so my accreditation has long since elapsed. Even so, I keep up the skills, as my profession requires it.

    Is that "deep" enough for you?

    Put more simply, I don't have to read your damned book when I have half a dozen texts of my own lining the bookshelf about a foot above my monitor.
    Last edited by since9; 06-16-2016 at 12:26 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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