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a new "gun control" group for veterans, Gen. David Petraeus & ex astronaut Mark Kelly

MAC702

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I think this veteran has had just about enough of these groups trying to "help" me.
 

deepdiver

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Mark Kelly calls for the gov't to protect our rights by infringing our rights. I've come to expect such fallacious and nonsensical argument from him. It is sad to see Petraeus jump on the infringement band wagon.
 

solus

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Mark Kelly calls for the gov't to protect our rights by infringing our rights. I've come to expect such fallacious and nonsensical argument from him. It is sad to see Petraeus jump on the infringement band wagon.

might be part of his penance for his 'opps'

ipse
 

since9

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I read the article. Mark Kelly's comments are particularly enlightening, revealing that his knowledge of the statistical incidence of gun-related injuries and deaths is rooted in idealism and hype, rather than fact.

In short, despite the fact that he's an astronaut, when it comes to the facts surrounding firearms, he's a blithering idiot.
 

deepdiver

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I read the article. Mark Kelly's comments are particularly enlightening, revealing that his knowledge of the statistical incidence of gun-related injuries and deaths is rooted in idealism and hype, rather than fact.

In short, despite the fact that he's an astronaut, when it comes to the facts surrounding firearms, he's a blithering idiot.

That pretty much sums up Kelly.
 

MAC702

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Since the Apollo program, being an astronaut is a purely political attainment once meeting the qualifications. Kelly deserves zero extra status for it. Much can be said for any Army officer that attains flag rank outside of a field promotion during wartime. And that pretty much sums up the guys that want to "help" me by increasing the name they have for themselves.
 

Citizen

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Gen. David Petraeus and retired astronaut Mark Kelly announced Friday they are forming a new gun control group for veterans. The Veterans Coalition for Common Sense will push to strengthen gun background check laws and help prevent veterans from committing suicide. It pointed to several alarming statistics about the military and gun violence.

From the link above.

Before I click on the link, does it say anything about the gun violence by the US after the now-debunked Gulf of Tonkin incident? The 250K Iraqi civilian dead (UN estimate)?

Seems to me that veterans are not the biggest concern for "gun violence." Seems to me the fed gov itself is the biggest perp of "gun violence."
 

since9

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All statistical conclusions are only probable proofs, half-proofs.

Please read The Science of Conjecture: Evidence and Probability Before Pascal that reveals the big lie told again and again about statistics and frequentist statistics. You cannot know the next flip of a fair coin.

No, but you can predict the results of the next x number of flips, including both distribution and variation. :)

The reason the titles of both textbooks on the subject says, "Probability and Statistics" is because while they're related subjects, they remain distinctly istinctly separate issues. The simple answer is that probability deals with predicting the likelihood of future events, while statistics involves the analysis of the frequency of past events. Another way of putting it is, "Probability is primarily a theoretical branch of mathematics, which studies the consequences of mathematical definitions. Statistics is primarily an applied branch of mathematics, which tries to make sense of observations in the real world." - source

By the way, Franklin's book is an expose' of how people before counted frequency and determined probability Pascal and Fermat's discovery of the mathematics of probability in 1654.
 

PerBast

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Protecting Veterans from self harm


Oh darn. The military and veterans organizations are worried about me harming myself after serving my country. Yes, restricting my ability to purchase and own a gun will definitely prevent me from hurting myself. As a Veteran I am not smart enough to come up with other ways to self harm myself....Oh wait as a RN I can come up with many ways. Hanging come to mind as a cheap and effective manor, as does jumping from a tall building.

My rant. Forgive me.

Michael
 

solus

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Oh darn. The military and veterans organizations are worried about me harming myself after serving my country. Yes, restricting my ability to purchase and own a gun will definitely prevent me from hurting myself. As a Veteran I am not smart enough to come up with other ways to self harm myself....Oh wait as a RN I can come up with many ways. Hanging come to mind as a cheap and effective manor, as does jumping from a tall building.

My rant. Forgive me.

Michael

many, many, many years ago on one of the 'tent style, revival' Gospel radio station's broadcast on AM w/static and such, a preacher was interviewing another evangelist about how he got into preaching...

in broken voice the man answered he was in great distress so went to the top of the highest building in town ~ 10-15 stories, and jumped...

the interviewing evangelist asked anxiously...what happened...individual answered by saying on the way down 'i changed my mind' and asked God to save me!

even more excitedly the evangelist says so what happened...individual says i landed feet first and drove my knee caps up to my ears, but i lived and i now limp a bit but i am so grateful, I preach the Word...

moral...make sure the building is high enough...

ipse
 

RockyMtnScotsman

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15qyta.jpg
 

deepdiver

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I saw a few different posts from conspiracy types about this new gun control group and the Pulse nightclub slaughter. In short, they questioned the timing.
 

since9

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It is more than that.

The mathematics of probability discovered by Pascal and Fermat are models of repeated events, a fiction. The model, their model, is founded on induction that fails to account for The Black Swan unique event.

Hardly. Measures of dispersion are an integral part of statistics. By the way, you're still confusing probability with statistics.

Probability involves using the knowledge of any system, whether that be as simple as flipping a coin, or as complication as a deck of cards and multiple players under the rules of Texas Hold 'Em, to predict the likelihood of future events. Inherent within the science of probability is the fact that predictions are not absolute. Thus, you certainly can flip a penny fifty times with it landing heads all fifty times. But the probability of that happening is cut in half each flip. This, it's 50% for the first flip, 25% for the second flip, 12.5% for the third, etc. The probability that it will land heads all fifty flips is 8.88x10[SUP]-14[/SUP]%. Science never says that it's "impossible." Science says that it's "highly improbable," and because it is indeed science, and not "a fiction" as you errantly claim, science also tells us the precise value of the probability.

Statistics, meanwhile, is the measure of historical information in a way that provides meaningful analysis.

As others, California Right To Carry et al, here have noted, our studies must go deeper than the fly covers of the books that we reference.

My studies include a Master of Science in Management, a principle component of which is the thorough understanding of both probability and statistics. That's two years of hard labor, er., study, and I went deep enough to earn a 4.0, graduating Summa Cum Laude. Prior to that I studied engineering statistics (full year), business statistics (another full year), graduate-level statistics (three classes, each with its own 1,000+ page textbook). Somewhere along the way I became a registered statistician. Alas, that was before Uncle Sam asked me to fly airplanes, so my accreditation has long since elapsed. Even so, I keep up the skills, as my profession requires it.

Is that "deep" enough for you?

Put more simply, I don't have to read your damned book when I have half a dozen texts of my own lining the bookshelf about a foot above my monitor.
 
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