4A is Officially Extinct

OC for ME · Jun 22, 2016

davidmcbeth said:
Or be proactive...file no contact orders with LEO depts. notifying them that you do not consent to any contact from LEOs of the agency.

Then when they contact you they are assaulting you (unless they have RAS or PC or warrant).

I have filed them and they howl when they read them....but none have violated them. They know what would happen. Not good things for them.

Please cite the form, or forms, required in CT that would notify cops that they are restrained from contacting you.

If no cite to the proper form(s) you are spreading fertilizer...again. Also, ya got any video/audio of cops howling after you "served" them notice?

Ezek · Jun 22, 2016

Citizen said:
I don't know about that. I've seen references to maybe two states which require a cop to state his basis for a detention to the detainee if the detainee asks for it. Otherwise, after years of paying attention to this point, I know of nothing that requires a cop to answer.

Spearately, why wait for the cop to give an answer that suggests an illegal detention before requesting a lawyer? For illustrative purposes, I would ask, are you not going to request a lawyer if the cop gives you a genuine reasonable basis to detain you?

good point, and solidly made.

again I gues I was overcomplicating it.

you are right most don't "have" to answer you, but most will. some won't. either way you announce you don't answer questions without legal counsel. and if you can get why you where detained out of the cop and the video shows that to be complete and utter BS.. well.. you have a rights violation, and/or harassment. this question also does NOT implicate you in anyway or provide any use against you in a courtroom IMO, since the officers report will of course already mention why.

davidmcbeth · Jun 22, 2016

OC for ME said:
Please cite the form, or forms, required in CT that would notify cops that they are restrained from contacting you.

If no cite to the proper form(s) you are spreading fertilizer...again. Also, ya got any video/audio of cops howling after you "served" them notice?

"proper form"? You must work in a gov't office where bureaucracy rules your day with forms and form numbers. Cite a statue that says a form is required? Because you create the document and you have it served upon the department in accordance with the service requirements of papers.

And maybe I do have audio/video ...share with you if I do? PASS

You keep on telling folks that I spread fertilizer but I keep winning in court ! See attached jpg .. state admits being naughty ... I have other claims pending too which will also likely be admitted to....

OC for ME · Jun 23, 2016

davidmcbeth said:
"proper form"? You must work in a gov't office where bureaucracy rules your day with forms and form numbers. Cite a statue that says a form is required? Because you create the document and you have it served upon the department in accordance with the service requirements of papers.

And maybe I do have audio/video ...share with you if I do? PASS

You keep on telling folks that I spread fertilizer but I keep winning in court ! See attached jpg .. state admits being naughty ... I have other claims pending too which will also likely be admitted to....

There is a form that is to be used in CT to inform a citizen, even a government employee citizen, that they are restrained from contacting you. Produce a copy of the form you served the cops. No form you are spreading fertilizer.

I suspect that you have not one video of cops howling...as you have asserted.

hammer6 · Jun 23, 2016

Nightmare said:
From the link URL above . So let's not hate on the liberal Justices.

they are good for certain things lol

davidmcbeth · Jun 23, 2016

OC for ME said:
There is a form that is to be used in CT to inform a citizen, even a government employee citizen, that they are restrained from contacting you. Produce a copy of the form you served the cops. No form you are spreading fertilizer.

I suspect that you have not one video of cops howling...as you have asserted.

You are talking about a restraining order. Not talking about a restraining order. TRO/ROs are filed after an issue has been encountered; mine address contact before issues are encountered. No form for that, just like a notice of trespass has no form.

Do you think you need to be contacted before you tell a gov't official "I do not consent to any consensual encounter?" No, one does not have to wait for that. Be proactive.

OC for ME · Jun 23, 2016

davidmcbeth said:
You are talking about a restraining order. Not talking about a restraining order. TRO/ROs are filed after an issue has been encountered; mine address contact before issues are encountered. No form for that, just like a notice of trespass has no form.

Do you think you need to be contacted before you tell a gov't official "I do not consent to any consensual encounter?" No, one does not have to wait for that. Be proactive.

Produce the order. Not a complicated request.

Your order, if it exists, is a proactive act to preserve your 4A. In light of the op it seems that a cop could simply state that he misunderstood (Heien), or that he broke the law by initiating contact but the violation is inconsequential and thus he would not be held accountable for breaking the law just a teeny tiny bit.

Ezek · Jun 25, 2016

my opinion, OC4ME is right, all the officer needs is RAS to break the no contact order.

and RAS can be made out of thin air these days it seems.

davidmcbeth · Jun 25, 2016

OC for ME said:
Produce the order. Not a complicated request.

Your order, if it exists, is a proactive act to preserve your 4A. In light of the op it seems that a cop could simply state that he misunderstood (Heien), or that he broke the law by initiating contact but the violation is inconsequential and thus he would not be held accountable for breaking the law just a teeny tiny bit.

You will not see the order.

However, it would not be only a 4th amendment issue but it would be an assault upon you. The same as violating a notice of trespass, its trespassing once the prohibited person enters.

If the guy has RAS or not? Something for the courts to decide. Check you state citizens arrest rules of course. Where I'm at its very much pro-citizen arrest.

Michigander · Jun 25, 2016

Most of us here who have been around long enough to have done the grunt work of setting OC into motion in our various regions have seen many examples of the bill of rights being flamboyantly violated where fruit of the poisonous tree should have more than applied and no one cares because the charges are also bogus, and no amount of bringing this up to the prosecutor or anything else will stop a lengthy and expensive trial.

When the rubber meets the road, I'm not so sure this really matters, at least for a meticulously law abiding activist. It should, but I think the idea that it does gives far too much credibility to a corrupt system.

since9 · Jun 26, 2016

OC for ME said:
No form you are spreading fertilizer.

Indeed. Still no form. Just a bunch of manure about how/why it can't/won't be produced.

That fertilizer is growing more rank every day.

Va_Nemo · Jun 26, 2016

When I rather recently started perusing this place Mr. Mcbeth sure did seem to be much more than a fair bit of a jerk in general, idiot in specific on many many things. One of those dayum little pests that hang around and bother the living daylights out of you and never goes away. No matter how many times you get away from it, it just hangs on. From deck to kitchen to living room to pool to shower to front porch and its still there.

But over the recent past I gotta say, on occasion he sure seems to occasionally have his ducks in a row on a fair number of things. Maybe a major jerk with well rowed up ducks but he does get some fair credit.

On this, he gets credit without uploading a PDF. From me anyway.

Nemo

utbagpiper · Jun 27, 2016

davidmcbeth said:
You will not see the order.

Va_Nemo said:
On this, he gets credit without uploading a PDF. From me anyway.

For the life of me, I can't imagine why he wouldn't upload a pdf of whatever form he is using. With his information redacted what does he have to lose?

Not only would he gain credibility, he would also provide a service to others here who might actually wish to emulate him. He has a found or produced a form that works well for him. Why not share it with others....if it exists?

Charles

sudden valley gunner · Jun 27, 2016

Thank the gods for republican judges ......right?

Jeff Hayes · Jun 28, 2016

The 4A is not extinct, in fact it has never changed, the government can not take rights away, the real problem is all of us that stand by and allow crap like this ruling to stand.

sudden valley gunner · Jun 28, 2016

Jeff Hayes said:
The 4A is not extinct, in fact it has never changed, the government can not take rights away, the real problem is all of us that stand by and allow crap like this ruling to stand.

+1

Side note I am not also not ashamed to say I am wary of their cowardly violent methods.

Jeff Hayes · Jun 28, 2016

sudden valley gunner said:
+1

Side note I am not also not ashamed to say I am wary of their cowardly violent methods.

I am shocked that we agree, LOL

Dario · Jun 29, 2016

I see a silver lining here. Less blood-sucking lawyers getting charges dropped for guilty and/or stupid people who never bothered learning their rights. Never consent, always ask to see a warrant, do not incriminate yourself etc. has been shouted from the rooftops ever since Al Gore invented the internet. The COTUS, UN charter, USCC, federal, state and local statues are all available to anyone with the click of a mouse. There is no excuse for being ignorant of the law in this day and age.

davidmcbeth · Jun 29, 2016

sudden valley gunner said:
+1

Side note I am not also not ashamed to say I am wary of their cowardly violent methods.

You are prepared or preparing then I assume.

OC for ME · Jun 29, 2016

Dario said:
I see a silver lining here. Less blood-sucking lawyers getting charges dropped for guilty and/or stupid people who never bothered learning their rights. Never consent, always ask to see a warrant, do not incriminate yourself etc. has been shouted from the rooftops ever since Al Gore invented the internet. The COTUS, UN charter, USCC, federal, state and local statues are all available to anyone with the click of a mouse. There is no excuse for being ignorant of the law in this day and age.

Terry, Heien, and Strieff stand in disagreement with your assertion. Remember, cops are excused as a matter of law.

4A is Officially Extinct

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