Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: LGBT turnout for free course surprises Houston Shiloh Shooting Range

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,150

    LGBT turnout for free course surprises Houston Shiloh Shooting Range

    Anthony was one of the more than 300 people who responded to Shiloh’s offer of free concealed carry classes. The calls kept coming. "They're not necessarily what we've been told and we're not necessarily what they've been told,” said Shiloh owner Jeff Sanford. He said the classes broke barriers. In the first class, he said 60 of 62 who signed up showed up. He said that was a record for a free class.

    http://www.click2houston.com/news/lg...shooting-range
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Anthony was one of the more than 300 people who responded to Shiloh’s offer of free concealed carry classes. The calls kept coming. "They're not necessarily what we've been told and we're not necessarily what they've been told,” said Shiloh owner Jeff Sanford. He said the classes broke barriers. In the first class, he said 60 of 62 who signed up showed up. He said that was a record for a free class.

    http://www.click2houston.com/news/lg...shooting-range
    And yet like a similarly ignorant and foolish demographic, the homosexuals will continue to vote nearly unanimously for the liberal party. Utter and complete fools they are.

  3. #3
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,865
    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    And yet like a similarly ignorant and foolish demographic, the homosexuals will continue to vote nearly unanimously for the liberal party. Utter and complete fools they are.

    so your statement is that the GLBT demographic is ignorant and foolish ?

    humm me thinks some sensitivity training would be beneficial for the individual in TX...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    ADA County, ID
    Posts
    601
    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    And yet like a similarly ignorant and foolish demographic, the homosexuals will continue to vote nearly unanimously for the liberal party. Utter and complete fools they are.
    I agree, well said.

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    ADA County, ID
    Posts
    601
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so your statement is that the GLBT demographic is ignorant and foolish ?

    humm me thinks some sensitivity training would be beneficial for the individual in TX...

    ipse
    Sensitivity training, Oh please. That's something I would hear coming from the left. Are you sure your not living in California? San Francisco area maybe?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    Sensitivity training, Oh please. That's something I would hear coming from the left. Are you sure your not living in California? San Francisco area maybe?
    You have never smelled an anile troll before? You do know that they NEVER wash their feet, and walk where they have squatted.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-26-2016 at 04:58 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "They're not necessarily what we've been told and we're not necessarily what they've been told,” said Shiloh owner Jeff Sanford.
    http://www.click2houston.com/news/lg...shooting-range
    He worded that brilliantly, as far as I'm concerned. Too many in the gun world are scared/mad/disgusted with the LGBT world and likewise with the LGBT crowd and guns.

    I'm in the minority in Texas (as far as I can tell) when it comes to that particular issue - I'm a straight gun owner in his 40's that lives in Texas and doesn't particularly care about who you choose to sleep with. Its none of my business and has exactly zero impact on my daily life.

    If we can get the LGBT world buying guns and shooting on a regular basis, it exposes a whole new demographic to our world. We have a pretty serious issue in Dallas with anti-gay attacks in a particular part of town. If the LGBT folks start carrying more and training more, I suspect that problem resolves itself pretty quickly. As an added benefit, every person that we convert votes 2A and maybe we can quit worrying about whats going to happen to our guns every 4 years.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Plano, TX
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    And yet like a similarly ignorant and foolish demographic, the homosexuals will continue to vote nearly unanimously for the liberal party. Utter and complete fools they are.
    Maybe have a little empathy? Look at it from their perspective: They're persecuted by conservatives for being homosexual, and now they'll be persecuted by liberals, also, for trying to protect themselves. What are they supposed to do?

    These people are potential allies in the enemy camp, so we should be welcoming them, not calling them fools for being put into a difficult situation.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedDaemon View Post
    Maybe have a little empathy? Look at it from their perspective: They're persecuted by conservatives for being homosexual, and now they'll be persecuted by liberals, also, for trying to protect themselves. What are they supposed to do?

    These people are potential allies in the enemy camp, so we should be welcoming them, not calling them fools for being put into a difficult situation.
    I posted something similar as well yesterday, apparently its stuck in mod purgatory or something...

    Nice to see another North Texan. I'm in the Plano neighborhood as well

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedDaemon View Post
    Maybe have a little empathy? Look at it from their perspective: They're persecuted by conservatives for being homosexual, and now they'll be persecuted by liberals, also, for trying to protect themselves. What are they supposed to do?

    These people are potential allies in the enemy camp, so we should be welcoming them, not calling them fools for being put into a difficult situation.
    Tarring 'conservatives' with a rather too broad brush, are you?

    I'm confident of my conservatism and have never persecuted a homosexual.

    I do avoid unpleasant people of all stripes, believing that we are known by the company that we keep.

    This is why there will never be a unified movement and, indeed, unity in the United States, everybody is riding their favorite ox, PUSHING their cart of rights before, hypersensitive to their ox being gored.

    Once upon a time, before my time, or so I was told by my Sainted Mother, politics and religion and sex were topics unfit for public discussion. Now YOU know why.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  11. #11
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792
    Quote Originally Posted by Taypo View Post
    He worded that brilliantly, as far as I'm concerned. Too many in the gun world are scared/mad/disgusted with the LGBT world and likewise with the LGBT crowd and guns.

    ...

    If we can get the LGBT world buying guns and shooting on a regular basis, it exposes a whole new demographic to our world. We have a pretty serious issue in Dallas with anti-gay attacks in a particular part of town. If the LGBT folks start carrying more and training more, I suspect that problem resolves itself pretty quickly. As an added benefit, every person that we convert votes 2A and maybe we can quit worrying about whats going to happen to our guns every 4 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedDaemon View Post
    ...

    These people are potential allies in the enemy camp, so we should be welcoming them, not calling them fools for being put into a difficult situation.
    +1 on both accounts.

    Plus, there is something very powerful about someone other than the stereotypical middle-aged, middle-class, white, heterosexual, conservative male testifying before a legislative committee. Petite women, rape survivors, the disabled, the elderly, racial minorities, and homosexuals make a very compelling case for needing to legally carry firearms for their protection. There is no response possible from the typical left wing gun grabbers when one of their usual supporters talks about the risk of rape, assault, or hate crimes and how a firearm provides protections not otherwise available.

    This doesn't mean that religious conservatives and various liberals are going to agree on issues other than self-defense. But if we are mature and savvy, we don't have to agree on those issues.

    We can all agree that abortion providers have a right to an effective self-defense, even if we disagree on whether elective abortions of convenience should be legal. As much as I'd like to see elective abortion outlawed, so long as the law is what is currently is, I'd be thrilled for a few employees at abortion clinics to speak publicly about how carrying a firearm in public is essential to their self-defense. Not only would such statements bolster support for RKBA, but it might also discourage the rare, but high publicity crimes involving harm to abortion providers that serve to damage legitimate efforts to change laws.

    We can all agree that women and racial minorities have a right to an effective self-defense, even if we disagree on affirmative action or other race-based or sex-based policies.

    We can all agree that homosexuals have a right to live their lives in peace and to an effective self-defense, even if we disagree on the definition of marriage or the morality of certain sexual activities.

    I have found that in most cases, the best way to work together on RKBA issues with those who have differing political or social views on non-RKBA issues, is to simply leave the other issues unspoken, but to agree to be respectful of each other when those issues do come up and to continue working together on RKBA even if we find ourselves on different sides of some other issue. This has an interesting side-effect of improving civility in public discourse across many areas as those who are politically active know each other as individuals rather than as caricatures.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Tarring 'conservatives' with a rather too broad brush, are you?
    No broader than those who bemoaned how homosexuals could continue to vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Once upon a time, before my time, or so I was told by my Sainted Mother, politics and religion and sex were topics unfit for public discussion. Now YOU know why.
    Oh for the time when sex was something to be held a little more private. But, there was a time when people were polite enough to have wonderful public discourse about politics and religion. The Lincoln-Douglas debates come to mind as a sterling example. The religious camp meetings of early 19th century New England similarly suggest that religion was commonly discussed publicly.

    I am aware of 19th century bar owners / innkeepers who would trade dinner and a room to a traveling preacher or missionary in exchange for a good sermon in the dining room after dinner. A sermon or political stump speech was almost as good of evening entertainment as would have been some musical performances.

    Most listeners would have some level of disagreement with what would be preached in such sermons. But almost all were polite enough to listen and learn of others' views in spite of their disagreement.

    Very few subjects more directly influence our laws and society than do politics and the fundamental values that guide people's views. Those fundamental values are often shaped by religion.

    Thus, I can think of no subjects more important for public discussion than politics and religion.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  13. #13
    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    No broader than those who bemoaned how homosexuals could continue to vote.
    Except for the pesky little detail that homosexuals are, indeed, overwhelmingly liberal, Democrat, and do, in FACT, vote overwhelmingly for the party of the Socialists (that would be the official party of the Gun Grabbers for the uninitiated), whereas accusing "conservatives" of "persecuting" said homosexuals is nothing more than absurd, ridiculous, unsubstantiated hyperbole. I personally know of not a single Conservative who has ever "persecuted" any homosexual, do you?

    Other than that, however, I would agree, the two statements are substantially similar.

  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,865
    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    Except for the pesky little detail that homosexuals are, indeed, overwhelmingly liberal, Democrat, and do, in FACT, vote overwhelmingly for the party of the Socialists (that would be the official party of the Gun Grabbers for the uninitiated), whereas accusing "conservatives" of "persecuting" said homosexuals is nothing more than absurd, ridiculous, unsubstantiated hyperbole. I personally know of not a single Conservative who has ever "persecuted" any homosexual, do you?

    Other than that, however, I would agree, the two statements are substantially similar.
    do you perhaps have a cite for this, oh ya, quote: pesky little detail...unquote you mentioned as it sounds like, quote ...absurd, ridiculous, unsubstantiated hyperbole. unquote.

    we have not met, correct...then your statement of personally know...might be a bit of an exaggeration?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,270
    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    And yet like a similarly ignorant and foolish demographic, the homosexuals will continue to vote nearly unanimously for the liberal party. Utter and complete fools they are.
    It appears that your point is/was lost on some folks.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    do you perhaps have a cite for this...
    Google broken for you?

    http://www.towleroad.com/2016/02/cli...-republican-2/

  17. #17
    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It appears that your point is/was lost on some folks.
    Indeed.

  18. #18
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I agree, well said.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Taypo View Post
    I'm in the minority in Texas (as far as I can tell) when it comes to that particular issue - I'm a straight gun owner in his 40's that lives in Texas and doesn't particularly care about who you choose to sleep with. Its none of my business and has exactly zero impact on my daily life.

    ...We have a pretty serious issue in Dallas with anti-gay attacks in a particular part of town. ....
    I think you are in the broad majority here in Texas. I don't know anyong that goes out of their way to 'crusade' against gays. If you are referring to Defense of Marriage Act, or other Houston Bathroom ordinance, those are just people standing up for accepted social values, nothing t/b 'taken' from gays.

    Not sure about what the serious issue is here in Dallas? Do you mean the Cedar Springs area? I live/work close to it, have our PO Box there, am there daily during the week, and really don't see any issues. Back in the 70s there were lots of fights and so on, as well as in Montrose in Houston, but certainly don't think there is anything going on now....


    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedDaemon View Post
    Maybe have a little empathy? Look at it from their perspective: They're persecuted by conservatives for being homosexual, ...
    Where have there been persecutions? That is absolutely Barbra Streisand. Texas since WWII has predominantly been live-and-let-live - at least since the 1960s. Maybe it was much stricter when the Democrats were in control prior to 1960, with Jim Crow and the KKK and all, but from John Tower forward, there has been nothing of the sort of 'persecution', and certainly not from 'conservatives'.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  19. #19
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,792
    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    Except for the pesky little detail that homosexuals are, indeed, overwhelmingly liberal, Democrat, and do, in FACT, vote overwhelmingly for the party of the Socialists (that would be the official party of the Gun Grabbers for the uninitiated), whereas accusing "conservatives" of "persecuting" said homosexuals is nothing more than absurd, ridiculous, unsubstantiated hyperbole. I personally know of not a single Conservative who has ever "persecuted" any homosexual, do you?

    Other than that, however, I would agree, the two statements are substantially similar.
    I think some folks are picking nits and being a bit sensitive because we happen to be conservative.

    No. I don't know anyone who has persecuted homosexuals. I know of a very few wingnut groups like the KKK and Westboros who do what they can to persecute homosexuals. From time-to-time there is a rare news account of an actual "gay bashing" crime on the part of some criminally inclined individual. I know plenty of folks who are uncomfortable with homosexual conduct or homosexuals as a group. I know many more who have religious moral beliefs abut homosexual conduct. But I do not personally know anyone who has persecuted homosexuals.

    That said, in context of what SpeedDaemon wrote, I don't think we need to get too hypersensitive. Rightly or wrongly (mostly wrongly, I personally believe) I think homosexuals tend to believe or feel that conservatives have "persecuted" them. How?

    Well, by "denying them the dignity of their relationships" (if I may use the language of various court rulings) by opposing marriage benefits for same-sex couples. By opposing anti-discrimination laws that would force businesses to treat homosexual "marriages" as completely morally and socially equal and equivalent to conjugal unions of man and wife. By expecting people to use the bathroom of their biological gender and otherwise being "insensitive" to gender identity. In short, by not completely and fully embracing, encouraging, and rewarding homosexual conduct on equal footing with conjugal marriages. Indeed, I know there are those who view my usage of the word "homosexual" rather than "gay" or "LGBTQRZ" as a form of "persecution."

    To be clear, I don't think those things I've described in the paragraph immediately above constitute "persecution". But I recognize that many homosexuals do perceive it as persecution and so SpeedDaemon's sentiment is materially correct from the perspective of the homosexuals. Many (most??) do not feel fully welcomed and embraced by conservatives, who are not going to alter their religious and moral beliefs regarding same-sex sexual activity. At the same time, to own and carry a gun for self-defense puts them at odds with the liberals who have traditionally embraced the homosexual community.

    My point to nightmare, poorly expressed it seems, is that we ought not be too fast to get uptight over "broad brushes" used in discussions about broad demographic groups. Or at the very least, if one is going to get uptight about broad brushes in one direction, have the intellectual honesty to point them out in both directions.

    Or, more to the point, rather than looking to take offense or pick nits over peripheral issues, there might be more benefit in looking at the broad insights being offered.

    Yes, most homosexuals will probably continue to vote for gun grabbers even if they want to carry a gun themselves, at least in the short term. Why is that? And what might we do to change it in the longer term?

    I believe it is possible to gain political allies without having to agree on every jot and tittle of every social question out there. It is possible to disagree respectfully. And with the SCOTUS decision in the Kitchen case removing the definition from the political realm, conservatives' and homosexuals' disagreements on what marriage ought to mean is now largely moot. I don't personally like that. But since it has been forced upon me, I might just as well make what lemonade I can from them lemons. An opportunity to persuade the small but politically potent homosexual community to really support RKBA should not be discarded lightly.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    +1
    Not sure about what the serious issue is here in Dallas? Do you mean the Cedar Springs area? I live/work close to it, have our PO Box there, am there daily during the week, and really don't see any issues. Back in the 70s there were lots of fights and so on, as well as in Montrose in Houston, but certainly don't think there is anything going on now....
    Oak Lawn has had a couple dozen in the last year. Granted, they may not all be anti-LGBT but considering the neighborhood, it isnt a stretch.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Taypo View Post
    Oak Lawn has had a couple dozen in the last year. Granted, they may not all be anti-LGBT but considering the neighborhood, it isnt (sic) a stretch.
    so no firm cites to your hyperbole...

    got it

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-29-2016 at 10:20 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,604
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so no firm cites to your hyperbole...

    got it

    ipse
    Caught between firm and infirm is that ol' standby = i-firm.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,270
    Support these folks http://www.logcabin.org/, not liberals with a gun.

    Liberals will eat their own if any member of a traditionally liberal demographic strays from the liberal agenda. Clarence Thomas? Condoleezza Rice? Milo Yiannopoulos?

    Liberals are to be defeated at every turn and to expend time and resources to convert liberals is a waste of our energies. Let those who revere individual liberty who reside in those demographics do the hard work. Support the foot soldiers!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so no firm cites to your hyperbole...

    got it

    ipse
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...orhood-attacks

    http://www.dallasvoice.com/da-hawk-s...-10218070.html

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement...ince_september

    Would you like me to continue to firm it up for you, sparky?

  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Taypo View Post
    snippp...

    Would you like me to continue to firm it up for you, sparky?
    careful newbie, don't want to draw the ire of the august member from Utah ~ Joesparky...

    nor do you wish to continue throwing nonsensical hyperbole out and about w/o cites thus depriving the membership of how you came to reach your perspective, both real or imagined.

    nor do you wish to fail to follow the rules on your new found soapbox as the nice mod might send you a nice PM...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •