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Thread: After gallery OC ban blind democrat now wants total ban at Capitol campus

  1. #1
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    After gallery OC ban blind democrat now wants total ban at Capitol campus

    Proving yet again that OC is a buffer that keeps CC legal after the state legislature banned OC from the galleries they are now going after ALL guns except for their hired muscle.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/kirk...dings-gun-free

    Call up this blind guy and help him "see the light" that disarming regular citizens isn't how you solve problems and that people shouldn't have to give up their rights just to visit their own government.

    (360) 786-7694
    Last edited by Alpine; 06-28-2016 at 12:04 PM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    State Sen. Cyrus Habib (D-Kirkland)...how would he know anyone was OCing?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Because his flappers tell him.

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    Time to remove all the safety banisters .... they scare me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Time to remove all the safety banisters .... they scare me.
    Warning labels scare me, we need to get rid of all of them.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Proving yet again that OC is a buffer that keeps CC legal after the state legislature banned OC from the galleries they are now going after ALL guns except for their hired muscle.
    OC is an opportunity to educate the public about good guys carrying guns. It provides exposure that can result in desensitizing the public to the issue of regular citizens owning and carrying guns in public.

    Brandishing, or anything else that starts to approach carrying a gun with intent to intimidate others, can result in political backlash even if the carrying doesn't cross the legal threshold into criminal conduct. As I pointed out when this incident originally happened, the result of the Black Panthers carrying long guns into the gallery of the California legislature was anti-carrying legislation that is really the start of that State's downward slide into the RKBA-hostile regime we know today. None other than Governor Reagan pushed for and signed that legislation.

    In brief, carrying a visible gun has great potential to do political and social good in addition to assisting with an effective self-defense. But it also has the potential for undesired political backlash if done irresponsibly.

    Obviously, I disagree with restricting the rights of citizens at legislative buildings. CC and OC should both be legal.

    Finally, while the article to which you linked had a reason to point out the State Senator Habib's physical disability, there was no reason to do in your OP, and your wordplay on that disability is beneath the decorum that ought to attend to those who support RKBA. It makes it appear as if you are mocking the disability or perhaps simply engaging in some kind of low-brow personal attack rather than sticking to the facts and issues. I'm sure such wasn't your intent. But you may want to rethink and edit your post to avoid conveying that message.

    All the best.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    OC is an opportunity to educate the public about good guys carrying guns. It provides exposure that can result in desensitizing the public to the issue of regular citizens owning and carrying guns in public.

    Brandishing, or anything else that starts to approach carrying a gun with intent to intimidate others, can result in political backlash even if the carrying doesn't cross the legal threshold into criminal conduct. As I pointed out when this incident originally happened, the result of the Black Panthers carrying long guns into the gallery of the California legislature was anti-carrying legislation that is really the start of that State's downward slide into the RKBA-hostile regime we know today. None other than Governor Reagan pushed for and signed that legislation.

    In brief, carrying a visible gun has great potential to do political and social good in addition to assisting with an effective self-defense. But it also has the potential for undesired political backlash if done irresponsibly.

    Obviously, I disagree with restricting the rights of citizens at legislative buildings. CC and OC should both be legal.

    Finally, while the article to which you linked had a reason to point out the State Senator Habib's physical disability, there was no reason to do in your OP, and your wordplay on that disability is beneath the decorum that ought to attend to those who support RKBA. It makes it appear as if you are mocking the disability or perhaps simply engaging in some kind of low-brow personal attack rather than sticking to the facts and issues. I'm sure such wasn't your intent. But you may want to rethink and edit your post to avoid conveying that message.

    All the best.

    Charles
    I agree that the demonstration that led to the gallery ban was crazy but I place the blame for that squarely on WSP. They could have and should have easily arrested those brandishers for .270 violations as occurs elsewhere when people take longguns or pistols into their hands and start sweeping other people with the muzzles.

    Also, initially I thought it might be bad taste to bring up Habib's disability but I thought about it and determined it was very relevant because, as he is blind, he cannot use a gun and might even be restricted from obtaining a CPL (not sure about this) and because he cannot use a gun himself he figures he is going to restrict others' rights. It would be like an amputee deciding that everyone else should lose the right to wear shoes just because they don't, only with firearms it's worse since firearms are protected by the national and state Constitutions.
    Last edited by Alpine; 06-28-2016 at 06:07 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    I agree that the demonstration that led to the gallery ban was crazy but I place the blame for that squarely on WSP. They could have and should have easily arrested those brandishers for .270 violations as occurs elsewhere when people take longguns or pistols into their hands and start sweeping other people with the muzzles.
    Whether the failure to enforce the law and keep the peace was a result of malice (to deliberately allow a situation that might support new limits on RKBA) or to incompetence (just not sure how best to handle folks who were rude, but probably not actually dangerous), or something else is probably hard to say for sure. Regardless, the blame for engaging in firearm-related conduct that provides easy ammo to our opponents must always lie with those who choose to engage in that conduct. Had WSP done exactly the best thing possible, it would have still been just a reaction to what self-proclaimed pro-RKBA idiots chose to do.

    Put another way, if the Brady Bunch had wanted to damage RKBA they couldn't have chosen a much more effective method than doing exactly what the claimed "pro-RKBA activists" did.

    This is the same standard I use to evaluate legislative votes on my RKBA. The guy who votes against me for all the right reasons, has still voted against me. The guy who votes with me only because he is afraid I can cost him his seat next time around has still voted with me. Reasons matter a whole lot less than results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Also, initially I thought it might be bad taste to bring up Habib's disability but I thought about it and determined it was very relevant because, as he is blind, he cannot use a gun and might even be restricted from obtaining a CPL (not sure about this) and because he cannot use a gun himself he figures he is going to restrict others' rights. It would be like an amputee deciding that everyone else should lose the right to wear shoes just because they don't, only with firearms it's worse since firearms are protected by the national and state Constitutions.
    I'm glad that you didn't intend anything untoward with the reference to his disability. But, respectfully, there is a lot of supposition in that explanation. And even if all of it is true, none of it comes across in your OP.

    I do not know the requirements of a permit in Washington. In Utah, nothing prevents a person who is "blind" from getting a permit or legally owning or carrying a gun. More than one blind person has learned to use a gun properly for self-defense. Also, bear in mind that "blind" can mean a lot of things, and many who are legally blind can still see sufficient shapes or shadows to effectively use a firearm for self defense beyond arms reach.

    I think any who read your OP are prone to see something you didn't intend. Just food for thought.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Because his flappers tell him.
    WoW! A literary allusion! To Gulliver's Travels' Laputians.
    I observed here and there many in the habit of servants, with a blown bladder fastened like a flail to the end of a short stick, which they carried in their hands. In each bladder was a small quantity of dried pease, or little pebbles (as I was afterwards informed).

    With these bladders they now and then flapped the mouths and ears of those who stood near them, of which practice I could not then conceive the meaning; it seems, the minds of these people are so taken up with intense speculations, that they neither can speak, nor attend to the discourses of others, without being roused by some external action upon the organs of speech and hearing; for which reason, those persons who are able to afford it always keep a flapper (the original is climenole) in their family, as one of their domestics, nor ever walk abroad or make visits without him. And the business of this officer is, when two or more persons are in company, gently to strike with his bladder the mouth of him who is to speak, and the right ear of him or them to whom the speaker addresseth himself.

    This flapper is likewise employed diligently to attend his master in his walks, and upon occasions to give him a soft flap on his eyes, because he is always so wrapped up in cogitation, that he is in manifest danger of falling down every precipice, and bouncing his head against every post, and in the streets, of justling others, or being justled himself into the kennel.
    I thought I recalled a concise contextual title for these servants, but on a brief perusal I did not rediscover it.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-28-2016 at 06:41 PM.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    "What's really sad is that Sen. Habib has been attending the annual Sportsmen's Caucus at ESC (range) for many years! He's actually quite a good shot with a spotter helping out." MD from TOS.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    I agree that the demonstration that led to the gallery ban was crazy but I place the blame for that squarely on WSP. They could have and should have easily arrested those brandishers for .270 violations as occurs elsewhere when people take longguns or pistols into their hands and start sweeping other people with the muzzles.
    Also, initially I thought it might be bad taste to bring up Habib's disability but I thought about it and determined it was very relevant because, as he is blind, he cannot use a gun
    says who?
    and might even be restricted from obtaining a CPL (not sure about this)
    I am sure about this, he may obtain a CPL
    and because he cannot use a gun himself he figures he is going to restrict others' rights.
    a bit of a leap
    It would be like an amputee deciding that everyone else should lose the right to wear shoes just because they don't, only with firearms it's worse since firearms are protected by the national and state Constitutions.
    you need better metaphors, no one buys that one.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 07-07-2016 at 03:11 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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