carry in federal facility (besides court) legal if....

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

so i was reading 18 US Code 930 and i'm confused. as i read it, if: someone possesses a carry permit, or if their state doesn't require a permit to legally carry and they qualify under that state's laws, then they are legally allowed to carry in a federal facility (except court facility).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

thoughts?

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2016

"(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

Grapeshot said:
"(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

what am i missing?

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2016

Originally Posted by Grapeshot
"(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

hammer6 said:
what am i missing?

Missing that your/our ability to legally carry there has been restricted.

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

Grapeshot said:
Missing that your/our ability to legally carry there has been restricted.

i said a federal facility other than a federal court.

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2016

Grapeshot said:
"(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

hammer6 said:
i said a federal facility other than a federal court.

judges’ chambers,

witness rooms,

jury deliberation rooms,

attorney conference rooms,

prisoner holding cells,

offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney,

and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices

etc, etc.

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

Grapeshot said:
judges’ chambers,

witness rooms,

jury deliberation rooms,

attorney conference rooms,

prisoner holding cells,

offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney,

and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices

etc, etc.

are you deliberately missing my point? i concur that all these places are included in my phrasing "federal court". but i'm talking about all other federal facilities, other than the federal court and the ones you listed by name.

color of law · Jul 3, 2016

hammer6 said:
so i was reading 18 US Code 930 and i'm confused. as i read it, if: someone possesses a carry permit, or if their state doesn't require a permit to legally carry and they qualify under that state's laws, then they are legally allowed to carry in a federal facility (except court facility).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

thoughts?

Please point to the section (other than for hunting purposes) that even implies that citizens are permitted to carry in a federal facility.

I have carried, as a citizen, in a federal facility, but by invitation only.

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

color of law said:
Please point to the section (other than for hunting purposes) that even implies that citizens are permitted to carry in a federal facility.

I have carried, as a citizen, in a federal facility, but by invitation only.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

if a method of carry is legal in your state, and you qualify for it, is that not considered a "lawful purpose", and eligible under the exemption of this federal law?

i'll add - (1) and (2) are eligible exemptions to carry in federal court facilities.

MAC702 · Jul 3, 2016

hammer6 said:
...if a method of carry is legal in your state, and you qualify for it, is that not considered a "lawful purpose", and eligible under the exemption of this federal law?...

The federal facility is outside the jurisdiction of the state laws. You'd have to meet the "lawful purposes" as recognized by federal laws.

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

MAC702 said:
The federal facility is outside the jurisdiction of the state laws. You'd have to meet the "lawful purposes" as recognized by federal laws.

found this from 2010

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Court-define-quot-other-lawful-purposes-quot

color of law · Jul 3, 2016

hammer6 said:
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

if a method of carry is legal in your state, and you qualify for it, is that not considered a "lawful purpose", and eligible under the exemption of this federal law?

i'll add - (1) and (2) are eligible exemptions to carry in federal court facilities.

You may have a point. See United States v. Bass, 404 US 336 - Supreme Court 1971. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...125&q=930+"lawful+purposes"&hl=en&as_sdt=3,36

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

MAC702 said:
The federal facility is outside the jurisdiction of the state laws. You'd have to meet the "lawful purposes" as recognized by federal laws.

the way i read it is that, if it's not on the list of "unlawful purposes", it is therefore legal, based on the text of the supreme law, the 2nd amendment.

just like federal law does not require a background check on the sale of a gun if the purchaser has a valid weapons license issued by that state.

it's the florida state law that requires a background check even on those with CWFLs. that leads us into the confusing legalese concerning why the federal government can require a background check to be performed when the seller is a licensed seller, but not when they are a private person.

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

color of law said:
You may have a point. See United States v. Bass, 404 US 336 - Supreme Court 1971. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_...125&q=930+"lawful+purposes"&hl=en&as_sdt=3,36

yeah that's basically saying, if it's not prohibited, it's lawful.

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2016

Might point out that offices/facilities where NPS employees regularly work are similarly restricted.

See if you can find others.

MAC702 · Jul 3, 2016

hammer6 said:
the way i read it is that, if it's not on the list of "unlawful purposes", it is therefore legal, based on the text of the supreme law, the 2nd amendment...

I don't dispute any of that. I'm just saying state laws have nothing to do with it.

hammer6 · Jul 3, 2016

MAC702 said:
I don't dispute any of that. I'm just saying state laws have nothing to do with it.

what i mean by state laws is that if you are not in violation of any state statute that makes you a "prohibited person" thus disqualifying you from the "lawful use" exemption.

lockman · Jul 3, 2016

According to attorneys representing the BATFE, self defense is not a lawful purpose. They further cited convictions under 18 USC 930 that are currently under appeal.

hammer6 · Jul 4, 2016

lockman said:
According to attorneys representing the BATFE, self defense is not a lawful purpose. They further cited convictions under 18 USC 930 that are currently under appeal.

correct me if i'm wrong but, wasn't there a recent SCOTUS ruling that said that the 2nd amendment is for the purpose of protection of self?

added-
but beyond that, if there's no "restriction" or "law" about something, it is defacto legal. so unless i can be pointed to the section that says "self defense is not a lawful purpose", then self defense in fact is a lawful purpose.

hammer6 · Jul 4, 2016

gutshot said:
Sounds good to me! Go for it! Carry into a federal building and make your case. Don't let them push you around. I wish you very good luck. Let us know how it works out for you. When do you expect to be doing this? I want to make sure I don't miss your post on the experience. Make sure you get video and audio. You will be a hero. We may have a parade with a band for you. Good luck.

thanks for the input.

carry in federal facility (besides court) legal if....

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