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Thread: HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY USA!!! Happy American Fourth of July. Be safe.

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    HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY USA!!! Happy American Fourth of July. Be safe.

    After I lead our Independence Day Parade to the ballfield and the children's parade of decorated bikes, then Milady Wife will park away from the ballfield to be under the fireworks so as to watch them through the moonroof.

    The old Legionairs complained so of the spectators not honoring the flag that I walk fifty yards ahead and ahead of the sound of the band and instruct the spectators on how to honor the passing flag. "Ladies and gentlemen, as the flag approaches please stand, uncover (I take my cap off) and salute (I demonstrate my hand over my heart)!" And I march to the next group.

    ISIS has just bombed Baghdad, killing about 150. Be safe. Happy Independence Day USA!!!


    TRUMP the establishment. God Bless US Bitter Clingers.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-03-2016 at 05:01 PM.
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    HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY USA!!! Happy American Fourth of July. Be safe

    Thanks Mr. Moderator for the stickie.

    Domo-arigato
    Mister Moderato.
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    Odes to liberty mark the Birthday of the Republic

    After the Civil War in 1869, a July 4 address reflected the view that war among brothers added a new dimension to the responsibilities that the generation of veterans faced: “Though young in years, we should remember that henceforth, and as long as we live in this land, we are the ancients — the veterans of the Republic. As such, it is for us to protect in peace what we preserved in war — it is for us to look at all things with a view to the common country and not to the exigencies of party politics .”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ow-patriotism/
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    After the Civil War in 1869, a July 4 address reflected the view that war among brothers added a new dimension to the responsibilities that the generation of veterans faced: “Though young in years, we should remember that henceforth, and as long as we live in this land, we are the ancients — the veterans of the Republic. As such, it is for us to protect in peace what we preserved in war — it is for us to look at all things with a view to the common country and not to the exigencies of party politics .”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ow-patriotism/
    "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
    A. Lincoln, November 19, 1863
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-03-2016 at 06:34 PM.
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    The Honored Dead

    The central feature of our Memorial Day observance is the reading of the names of all 250 Island men that gave their lives in service to our Country in all of the wars since the Civil War, about the time that the Island was settled. The old fisherman that reads does not need a loudspeaker for his wonderfully resonant gravelly voice - but not for too many more years.

    And I just heard a magazine of most likely automatic gun fire at the range.
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    I managed to dig this up so I'm gonna brag on it. I think the ugly URL works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
    A. Lincoln, November 19, 1863
    Let's also quote the most recognizable part of the speech, "Four score and seven years ago..."

    Do the math. Lincoln was referring not to the ratification of the constitution, but the Declaration of Independence.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,..."

    I have never consented. Did you consent, gentle reader?

    Let us examine this carefully.

    According to the howlers, government is the most important social institution.

    Now, some will argue that marriage is the most important social institution. (I happen to agree.) Obviously, the government thinks it is the most important social institution--they require a license (permission) to get married--so they set themselves and their institution above even marriage.

    So, let us discuss this most important social institution. This most important social institution of all that purports to operate by consent of the governed.

    No local or state government has a record of consent from me. Nor, does the federal government.

    Not one government has ever asked my consent. Not one.

    Worse, the fedgov and the state government have passed up numerous opportunities to ask my consent. Tax returns. The fedgov has over thirty tax returns from me. Ditto for states.

    Now, these people knew exactly who I was and where I lived. For a long time, they mailed me a tax return and booklet, and on the mailing label was a so-called social security number assigned individually to me and no one else.

    Now, my personal testimony to you, gentle reader, is that on not one of those tax returns did those governments ask my consent to be governed by them for the next twelve months. In fact, on the federal returns, they couldn't find room for me to attest by signature my consent, but they found room to ask whether I wanted $1 or three of my refund to go to the presidential re-election fund.

    Remember, this is the most important social institution. And, they couldn't be bothered to ask my genuine consent to subjugate myself to them. But, they could find room on the tax return to ask whether I wanted $1 to $3 to go to the presidential re-election fund.

    Reader, did you ever actually consent to be ruled by Washington? Your state? Your city, your town, your county?
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-03-2016 at 10:08 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Go back past the War of Northern Aggression to where all the Independence day stuff really started.

    Nemo

    https://www.history.org/almanack/lif...ics/giveme.cfm


    https://www.history.org/media/audio/Libordth.mp3
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 07-03-2016 at 10:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    "...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,..."

    I have never consented. Did you consent, gentle reader?

    ...

    Reader, did you ever actually consent to be ruled by....?
    I don't care to derail this thread with an off topic debate. So I don't intend to respond further. I will simply point out that I've never read anything to suggest that the Founders ever suggested that individual consent from each and every member of society was necessary in order for a government to justly exercise its authority.

    With respect, I believe our resident anarchist has looked beyond the mark, or (as Peter wrote) wrested the words to a meaning far different than the authors contemplated or intended.

    I can't get five of my closest friends to agree on what kind of pizza to order. The kind of individual, explicit consent to every act of government or every law or tax passed that our anarchist suggests is not attainable in any sizable or diverse population. Which, of course, leads to the anarchist's conclusion that the only legitimate society is anarchist in nature. One wonders whether he started with his misunderstanding of the words of the DoI to arrive at that conclusion, or whether he arrived at that conclusion and then wrested the words of the Founders to support his conclusion.

    In either case, it is unfortunate he feels compelled to bring this up in a thread celebrating the formal birth of our nation as independent from all others. His use of the pejorative "ruled by" to describe legitimate functions of government and his conflating of legitimate functions with improper intrusions into our rights further demonstrates a hostility to the very notion of government.

    For all others, I hope your Independence Day was as enjoyable and safe as was mine.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I don't care to derail this thread with an off topic debate. So I don't intend to respond further. ...
    yet you respond further.

    Anyway.

    Since "consent of the governed" is in the DoI, and it is in there for a specific reason, discussing this notion is on point for 7-4...in my view.

    Consent of the governed was John Locke’s idea and it differed with Hobbes social contract by stating that the government only exists by the consent of the governed. Locke believed that people were born with natural rights. People were a product of their environment and what they experience. From this he further explained government existed to protect the people’s natural rights, life, liberty and property. If government failed to do so then the people would exercise their right to rebel. The people then would give their consent to another government to rule never relinquishing their right to rebel. Hobbes would say the right to rebel never existed. Hobbes consent of the governed would be the people accepting the order established by the sovereign state.

    https://walkernewsdesk.wordpress.com...mas-jefferson/
    Hobbes camp or the Locke camp...which camp are you in? I'm in the Locke camp, other folks appear to be in the Hobbes camp.

    Had a good and soggy 7-4 while camping. Would not have been anywhere else.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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