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Thread: Who Really Gets to Have a Gun in America, Black or White? Complex.com

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    Who Really Gets to Have a Gun in America, Black or White? Complex.com

    Castile had a gun permit. Yet he was shot and killed by a police officer — apparently for carrying a handgun he was licensed to have. So why does it seem like black people are the only ones killed for “practicing their Second Amendment rights?” (Complex reached out to the National Rifle Association for comment but didn't receive a response.)
    [ ... ]
    In short, her message was: Guns are forms of self-defense, not weapons. While many may not agree with that, if that is what we are accepting as a society, it needs to apply to everyone.

    Then again, if Americans are supposed to protect themselves with guns, the question looms even larger after Castile's death: Who do we really need protection from?

    http://www.complex.com/life/2016/07/...gun-in-america

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_(magazine)
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-08-2016 at 12:12 PM.
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    Whichever one .. I'm part of that group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "...So why does it seem like black people are the only ones killed for “practicing their Second Amendment rights?” "
    Perhaps because the media is much more likely to report on a black man killed by the police than they are a white guy killed by the police under very similar circumstances?

    After all, "why does it seem like violent crime is so much worse now than it used to be" when those of us who have looked at the federal data KNOW that per capita violent crime rate is about 1/2 half what it was at it peak in the 90s and is at the lowest levels since the late 60s/early 70s. Violent crime is lower than it has been since the sexual/cultural/drug revolution of the 60s and 70s. But media coverage has shaped our perception even in the face of solid data to the contrary.

    As another example, of the 800,000 "children" who are reported missing each year in this nation of 320 million persons, all of about 115 are the "stereotypical" stranger abductions. The vast majority of "missing children" are teenage runaways. The second largest group are children taken by a non-custodial parent. Stranger abductions are so rare they should be all but unheard of. But they are always in front of us. If the nationwide, 24 hour news media reports on 1/2 of the stranger abduction cases, that is more than one kidnapping a week. So they can be selective, report on only the truly most horrific, and keep us all terrified with one report a month.

    It wasn't always this way. I grew up where we received TV from two major markets: Las Vegas and Salt Lake City. The Vegas news started every nightly newscast with the most notable murders of the day. These crimes almost never made the Salt Lake City news some 450 miles up the road. Similarly, the much more rare murder in Salt Lake almost never made the Vegas news. There were a few, rare exceptions, to be sure. But they were the exception. Today, with violent crime rates at about half what they were in the late 80s, the cable news networks of CNN, Fox, and MS-NBC provide a never ending stream of what reports on what are really, rather mundane and local crimes from across the nation. Internet including in my pocket on my smart phones makes this available to me almost anywhere I am. And the ability to customize newsfeeds means I can assure myself of a steady diet of confirmation-bias-reinforcing news stories on almost any topic, with police brutality against blacks being a favorite for some to both publish and others to consume.

    Are black men more likely to be wrongly killed by cops than whites? I don't know. Do whites--including white legal OCers and CCers--have their rights violated up to and including getting injured or killed? Absolutely. Do I go looking for stories about whites getting killed by cops? No, I do not. I do not view the world through a racial lens such that I'm particularly interested in whites being victimized by cops compared to blacks, Asians, AmerIndians, Hispanics, Pacific Islanders, or any other racial or ethnic demographic.

    But it seems some do. Maybe that is part of the problem in some cases.

    That all said, it is clear that infringements of RKBA in this nation have always been about disarming blacks and other "undesirable" minority populations (recent immigrants, AmerIndians, Irish, Catholics, Mormons, etc). If RKBA is the issue that convinces various minorities to stop mindlessly voting for Prog gun grabbers, great. But I won't hold my breath.

    Charles
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    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    sign...quote:...800K missing children a year...unquote

    quote: Unfortunately, there is no reliable way to determine how many total children are actually missing in the U.S., as many children are never reported missing.


    When a child is reported missing to law enforcement, federal law requires that child be entered into the FBI’s National Crime Information Center, also known as NCIC.


    According to the FBI, in 2015 there were 460,699 NCIC entries for missing children. Similarly, in 2014, the total number of missing children entries into NCIC was 466,949.


    This number represents reports of missing children. That means if a child runs away multiple times in a year, each instance would be entered into NCIC separately and counted in the yearly total.

    National Center for Missing & Exploited Children®assists law enforcement, families and the professionals who serve them with cases of missing and exploited children. NCMEC serves as the national clearinghouse for information about missing and exploited children. unquote.

    http://www.missingkids.com/KeyFacts

    your welcome...

    ipse
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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Castile had a gun permit. Yet he was shot and killed by a police officer — apparently for carrying a handgun he was licensed to have. So why does it seem like black people are the only ones killed for “practicing their Second Amendment rights?” (Complex reached out to the National Rifle Association for comment but didn't receive a response.)
    [ ... ]
    In short, her message was: Guns are forms of self-defense, not weapons. While many may not agree with that, if that is what we are accepting as a society, it needs to apply to everyone.
    It looks to me that he was actually a gang member and a robbery suspect.

    This would tilt my 1000 mile away observation that the cop was honest in saying 'I told him not to move' - not the accomplice that said 'he said he was reaching for his CHL' license.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-cop-killings/


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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    It looks to me that he was actually a gang member and a robbery suspect.

    This would tilt my 1000 mile away observation that the cop was honest in saying 'I told him not to move' - not the accomplice that said 'he said he was reaching for his CHL' license.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-cop-killings/


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    What does a gang member and robbery suspect look like?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regatta52 View Post
    What does a gang member and robbery suspect look like?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    Precisely!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    SNIP

    http://www.missingkids.com/KeyFacts

    your welcome...

    ipse
    Why is it my welcome?

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    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 07-09-2016 at 09:47 AM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Why is it my welcome?
    'Cause he puked on his keyboard and that's what the chunks look like to himself alone.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Why is it my welcome?

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    freedom, did you post something regaling about 800k missing children? if you did then my post w/correct information was aimed at you ~ however, i believe you will discern the individual from UT posted the misinformation...

    ipse
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    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    https://newtelegraphonline.com/kids-...-says-suspect/

    These people were compelled by the gov't to rob. ^^^

    Not guilty would have been my verdict.

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    Did this quote catch anyone's attention besides mine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex magazine article
    By law, American citizens in all 50 states can carry concealed weapons if they meet state requirements.
    Sure, if your definition of "state requirements" includes being very wealthy and/or politically connected...

    This is but one example of the blatant distortions and outright BS in the article - unfortunately, given its intended market, I'm not surprised. Check these:

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex magazine article
    On the flipside, white people get to be careless with their real guns, without any real repercussions...

    White people often flaunt their ability to flash guns at will...
    No racial bias there, eh? I'm almost sorry I read that... need to go take a shower now.
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    Experience? Experience means political success, which means (today) Democrat or Republican. And it is precisely these professional politicians who have become corrupt and unrepresentative of the American people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Why is it my welcome?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    'Cause he puked on his keyboard and that's what the chunks look like to himself alone.
    +1

    Something tells me the faux-Aussie, rambling troll won't even understand Freedom1Man's response. Best thing I've done is make himself alone, the lone member of my ignore list. I only have to see the output of his puked on keyboard when someone else quotes him.

    Charles
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    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    +1

    Something tells me the faux-Aussie, rambling troll won't even understand Freedom1Man's response. Best thing I've done is make himself alone, the lone member of my ignore list. I only have to see the output of his puked on keyboard when someone else quotes him.

    Charles
    mate, after reading your latest posts to myself as well as to other members, your insecurities to maintain your perceived superiority are beginning to really show which means even more traits are manifesting and the reality check could be quite shortly. so please take care since mitigating the perceived criticisms or rejections quickly will help you sooner rather than later.

    best of luck.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    All that's left is a hairball and toenails.

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    Ack Barf! Bill the Cat

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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    Ack Barf! Bill the Cat

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    Who does not love this character !

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    Quote Originally Posted by regatta52 View Post
    What does a gang member and robbery suspect look like?
    If you followed the link you would see the video captures of two perps holding guns at the C store robbery - pics the cop saw prior to his radio transcript:


    "Saint Anthony, MN, Police Officers Jeronimo Yanez and Joseph Kauser pulled over Mr. Castile and Ms. Reynolds because the driver, Philando Castile, matched the suspect profile in an armed robbery which occurred on July 2nd, at a convenience store, only a few blocks from where their car was pulled

    (pics of perps)

    The armed robbery occurred on July 2nd 7:30pm (Sat). The CCTV images were given to media and LEO by detectives on July 5th (Tuesday). A BOLO (Be On Look Out) alert was issued the same day, Tuesday July 5th. Philando Castile was pulled over on July 6th.

    From the radio dispatch of Officer Jeronimo Yanez:

    “I’m going to stop a car. I’m going to check IDs. I have reason to pull it over.”

    “The two occupants just look like people that were involved in a robbery. The driver looks more like one of our suspects, just ‘cause of the wide set nose.”

    A minute and a half later, the recording captures the first report that there was a shooting. "



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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    It looks to me that he was actually a gang member and a robbery suspect.

    This would tilt my 1000 mile away observation that the cop was honest in saying 'I told him not to move' - not the accomplice that said 'he said he was reaching for his CHL' license.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-cop-killings/


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    HPmatt, I recommend you exercise your critical thinking skills. I read the linked article--it's a great example of everything that's wrong with internet "journalism". The title is sensationalist--a gross exaggeration at best, flat-out false at worst--and the article makes a series of half-true claims and unwarranted assumptions to support their predetermined conclusion. Having read this article, I would not accept anything on Conservative Treehouse at face value. As a conservative, crap like this frustrates me because it only undermines our credibility.

    1. He wasn't a "robbery suspect," he was being checked out because he might match the description in a BOLO. Those are 2 very different things.

    2. According to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, he did have a permit although they only cite "a source." The sheriff's tweet cited in the Conservative Treehouse points out that just because he didn't have a permit from that county doesn't mean he didn't have one. CTH glossed over this because it didn't fit their narrative.

    3. He does appear to have a long series of traffic stops. That could be evidence that he is a bad driver, has a crappy car, that police stop black drivers more often than whites (a highway version of "stop & frisk"), or some combination of all three--there is no way to tell.

    4. It does appear that the reason the cop supposedly gave for the stop (a broken tail light) was just an excuse to check if the driver was the guy from the BOLO. That doesn't make it a "bad stop," and it doesn't make it right to shoot him.

    I'm waiting for the facts to come out before I decide anything. They're only "facts" after I cross-check them from several different sources.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If the tail light was inoperative, good stop. If no inoperative tail light, bad stop.

    If the citizen resembles a suspected armed robber to that cop at that time, QI will get him off the hook if he is wrong..."sorry, my bad" I think is the apology used.

    Cops violating a citizen by detaining/arresting the wrong guy has been excused by the courts for many years.

    Especially post Terry v. Ohio, Heien, and Strieff. 4A protections are virtually non-existent these days.

    The 4A is most certainly not a deterrent for LE.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    HPmatt, I recommend you exercise your critical thinking skills. I read the linked article--it's a great example of everything that's wrong with internet "journalism". The title is sensationalist--a gross exaggeration at best, flat-out false at worst--and the article makes a series of half-true claims and unwarranted assumptions to support their predetermined conclusion. Having read this article, I would not accept anything on Conservative Treehouse at face value. As a conservative, crap like this frustrates me because it only undermines our credibility. ...
    I agree completely with your analysis. Although I find the assertions interesting, they're definitely not as conclusive as the headline would have one believe.

    Even the alleged radio traffic hasn't been confirmed as genuine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If the tail light was inoperative, good stop. If no inoperative tail light, bad stop.

    <snip>
    It would depend on the state law ... not familiar with this state's law...but some only require one light to function, not both.

    Anyone know in this state?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If the tail light was inoperative, good stop. If no inoperative tail light, bad stop.
    Not necessarily. If the guy actually looks enough like the description of someone who is wanted, I suspect the officer can make the stop on that basis alone. That he lies to the driver as he walks up to the door by saying, "You've got a tail light out," rather than "Your passenger matches the description of an armed robber," is not a crime and may well be the safest way to approach the situation.

    Many years ago local officer lit up my car as I drove to work. I knew I'd done nothing wrong and so was perplexed. I stopped and as the officer walked to my car he quickly said, please keep your hands where I can see them, and then walked to the front of my car. He took one look and then walked back to my door much more relaxed. "I'm sorry to bother you. From the back your car matched the description of one we are looking for. But from the front it is obvious this is the wrong car. Have a nice day." And he was gone. Never even asked for my license. Seems like a perfectly legit stop to me.

    Matching the description of a wanted car or person is a valid reason for an officer to make a stop to further investigate and confirm identity, is it not?

    All of which says almost nothing about the particulars of the shooting.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    It would depend on the state law ... not familiar with this state's law...but some only require one light to function, not both.

    Anyone know in this state?
    The short version is "Two, unless the vehicle is older than a 1960." MN Statute 169.50 was apparently updated in 2005.

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.50

    (b) Every motor vehicle, other than a truck-tractor, and every vehicle that is being drawn at the end of a train of vehicles, registered in this state and manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1960, must be equipped with at least two tail lamps mounted on the rear and on the same level and as widely spaced laterally as practicable. When lighted, the tail lamps must comply with the provisions of this section.


    Here, in NC, two operational tail lamps are required. As of l5 Oct 2015, two brake lights are also required. (rising out of State v. Heien)

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_20-129.html

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