Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Police Are Using The Dallas Shooting To Go After Legal Open Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    766

    Police Are Using The Dallas Shooting To Go After Legal Open Carry

    http://www.activistpost.com/2016/07/...pen-carry.html

    If you are a citizen of Texas and tired of this nonsense from government employees, turn their argument against them, and see how they like it. Repeat it often and make them tired of hearing it.

    "When police openly carry their guns, it becomes impossible for citizens to differentiate between the officers who are racists that want to use black people for skeet shooting, vs. the officers that want to legitimately protect the public. Therefore, open carry of guns by police should be banned."
    Never defend -- always attack.
    Last edited by 44Brent; 07-13-2016 at 11:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    The best defense is a better offense. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with willful invincible ignorance.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Here's my compromise: don't mess with my rights and I won't mess with yours.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Let me get this straight. Police are being shot at because there is a public perception that they aren't respecting the rights of certain people. The solution is to remove rights from people?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    766
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Let me get this straight. Police are being shot at because there is a public perception that they aren't respecting the rights of certain people. The solution is to remove rights from people?
    Yes, according to the government employees who pose as wise men. I don't know how much traction they can get in the legislature with this twisted logic, but they might gain some ground because it is based on raw emotions.

    You can't EFFECTIVELY fight twisted logic based on raw emotion, by resorting to facts and logic. The point I am making is that for PR purposes, the most effective way to fight their attacks on 2nd Amendment rights is to take the fight to them, by turning their arguments against them. They would love to have an argument based on alleged "public safety" issues vs. the 2nd Amendment. However, the argument I have given above will cut them off at the knees and eviscerate them. 2nd Amendment advocates continually make the mistake of relying on analytical logic, while allowing the statists to rely on twisted emotional arguments. The squishy general public responds to emotion, so that is what you have to use to beat the statists in public.

    Think about this argument I have created:

    When police openly carry their guns, it becomes impossible for citizens to differentiate between the officers who are racists that want to use black people for skeet shooting, vs. the officers that want to legitimately protect the public. Therefore, open carry of guns by police should be banned."
    1) Statists will claim that this is ridiculous and not even a serious proposal because no rational person would propose disarming the police. RESPONSE: Other countries have disarmed the police (England, Norway), so obviously this is a serious proposal.

    2) Statists will claim that police don't use blacks as targets for skeet shooting. However, even though the specific accusation is ridiculous, the raw emotion will resonate with black people who naturally fear the police.

    3) The entire argument is ridiculous, BUT it perfectly mirrors the logic of the statists.
    Last edited by 44Brent; 07-14-2016 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    Quote Originally Posted by 44Brent View Post
    Yes, according to the government employees who pose as wise men. I don't know how much traction they can get in the legislature with this twisted logic, but they might gain some ground because it is based on raw emotions.

    You can't EFFECTIVELY fight twisted logic based on raw emotion, by resorting to facts and logic. The point I am making is that for PR purposes, the most effective way to fight their attacks on 2nd Amendment rights is to take the fight to them, by turning their arguments against them. They would love to have an argument based on alleged "public safety" issues vs. the 2nd Amendment. However, the argument I have given above will cut them off at the knees and eviscerate them. 2nd Amendment advocates continually make the mistake of relying on analytical logic, while allowing the statists to rely on twisted emotional arguments. The squishy general public responds to emotion, so that is what you have to use to beat the statists in public.

    Think about this argument I have created:



    1) Statists will claim that this is ridiculous and not even a serious proposal because no rational person would propose disarming the police. RESPONSE: Other countries have disarmed the police (England, Norway), so obviously this is a serious proposal.




    2) Statists will claim that police don't use blacks as targets for skeet shooting. However, even though the specific accusation is ridiculous, the raw emotion will resonate with black people who naturally fear the police.

    3) The entire argument is ridiculous, BUT it perfectly mirrors the logic of the statists.
    + 1000000
    ccj
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    They are using the LGOC at the rally/protest as an example of LGOC gone wrong. But nothing bad happened because of LGOC at that place and time. The only problem was the police putting out a photo of a man doing nothing illegal and calling him a suspect. But even that didn't end in irreversible harm to the man, so no real problem there, this time. The actions by everyone in the crisis (except the murderer) is an example of why OC is, at worst, benign. It's a power grab. Dallas PD did the same to guns in the 1800s after a shopkeeper killed a crooked cop. (Can't find a citation at the moment.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    They are using the LGOC at the rally/protest as an example of LGOC gone wrong....
    Not only have they been able to fix this issue for the past 150 years, but last year the solution was handed to them on a silver platter, and they still insisted on infringing upon the rights of Texans to bear arms by requiring unlicensed to carry long guns or be unarmed.
    Last edited by MAC702; 07-16-2016 at 12:32 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    They are using the LGOC at the rally/protest as an example of LGOC gone wrong. But nothing bad happened because of LGOC at that place and time. The only problem was the police putting out a photo of a man doing nothing illegal and calling him a suspect. But even that didn't end in irreversible harm to the man, so no real problem there, this time. The actions by everyone in the crisis (except the murderer) is an example of why OC is, at worst, benign. It's a power grab. Dallas PD did the same to guns in the 1800s after a shopkeeper killed a crooked cop. (Can't find a citation at the moment.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ? is how would you know no harm was done to this guy? I would think that he has had, and will continue to have, negative things happening to him.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    Some of the folks carrying long guns at the rally apparently were permit holders. And I do have some heartburn with people wearing camo, a gas mask, and carrying an AR, but they were making their point. It wasn't simple carry, it was symbolic protection from authorities. Never mind that Dallas has a PD that is a model for transparency and connection to community.

    CNN flew the "suspect" to their national studio and put him on live tv. He is the brother of the organizer of the protest and this is exactly what they wanted - more attention. As to harm, I think you know I meant that he was not killed. I'm not excusing the PD for the mistake, but let's be reasonable and accept that it was a small misjudgment that was quickly resolved. It could have resulted in serious trouble, but nothing bad happened this time. Overreaction won't help anyone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,878
    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    Some of the folks carrying long guns at the rally apparently were permit holders. And I do have some heartburn with people wearing camo, a gas mask, and carrying an AR, but they were making their point. It wasn't simple carry, it was symbolic protection from authorities. Never mind that Dallas has a PD that is a model for transparency and connection to community.

    CNN flew the "suspect" to their national studio and put him on live tv. He is the brother of the organizer of the protest and this is exactly what they wanted - more attention. As to harm, I think you know I meant that he was not killed. I'm not excusing the PD for the mistake, but let's be reasonable and accept that it was a small misjudgment that was quickly resolved. It could have resulted in serious trouble, but nothing bad happened this time. Overreaction won't help anyone. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    humm, next you will be saying the police's decision to corner, try, find guilty, sentence, carry out said sentence using a robot w/C4 was the natural flow of the situation.

    further, the nice LEs have never said over the years the killing of citizens at the hands of nice LEs were misjudgments, but rather 'righteous shoots' cuz the citizen did something to 'scare' the nice professionally trained LE holding the firearm. especially poignant, is the nice SC LE who shot the gentleman in the back as he was running for his life from the nice LE for an alleged burned out tail light.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    As I said, overreaction doesn't really help anyone, Mr Drama. I also said it doesn't make acceptable the calling out of him as a suspect. I didn't excuse the PD's actions, I merely point out that is was eventually cleared up without bloodshed. While that's a low bar to meet, when the crowd expected worse, it's a step. While they were being hunted and picked off, Dallas PD managed to isolate and dispatch the shooter without causing mortal harm to anyone else.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,878
    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    As I said, overreaction doesn't really help anyone, Mr Drama. I also said it doesn't make acceptable the calling out of him as a suspect. I didn't excuse the PD's actions, I merely point out that is was eventually cleared up without bloodshed. While that's a low bar to meet, when the crowd expected worse, it's a step. While they were being hunted and picked off, Dallas PD managed to isolate and dispatch the shooter without causing mortal harm to anyone else.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    over reaction ~ that his photo was widely and publicly disseminated that very evening to a group of nice LEs, & JQPublic (who might be in a vigilante mentality to take things into their own hands) shouldn't have occurred in the first place, IMHO as it puts the nice gentleman in grave danger ~ especially from vigilantes.

    instead, as mcbeth observes, the police should be chastised for their actions based purely on an individual's ethnicity, which put the young man in this grave position...


    cleared up?? you seem to believe there was a merely a chance of this encounter resulting in bloodshed...humm one man reaching for his license is dead, humm one man selling CDs is dead...all within 24 hours in normal controlled environment not a crisis filled mass shooting situation...


    further, this young man's photo has been disseminated far and near...even with the CNN 15 minutes of fame, i do hope everyone got the message he didn't have a thing to do with the Dallas event so one hopes there are no future inadvertent repercussions...


    sure didn't work with quote:
    DeRay Mckesson, one of the most prominent activists associated with the police reform protest movement, was arrested late Saturday in Baton Rouge, where he traveled to demonstrate in solidarity with residents angered by the recent death of Alton Sterling after an officer-involved shooting that was captured on video.


    He was released Sunday afternoon after being taken into custody about 11 the night before.


    Two fellow activists who witnessed the arrest described it as physically violent.

    Mckesson was charged with obstructing a highway of commerce, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to talk to reporters.


    “He was held an inordinate amount of time,” said Roy J. Rodney Jr., Mckesson’s attorney. “And normally people who peacefully protest are not arrested in this fashion.” unquote https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-rouge-police/

    ya i am over reacting...the suspect publicly identified by the Dallas PD that night should be concerned and not just from the PD...

    ipse

    added: and now one of this forum's super moderators just put out a post with a cite which shows this individual's foto prominently displayed on the cite's front page.
    uh huh...i am over reacting...this young man has just been made a public target and should be quite concerned of those around him.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...l-rights-issue
    Last edited by solus; 07-16-2016 at 01:40 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    "Police" isn't an entity any more than "black male" is an entity. You cannot extrapolate or interpolate from one department or office to another.
    There is no doubt that many officers in many departments have problems. And racism is alive and well. But let's focus on those things that really help resolve the problems. Chastising DPD beyond what is proportionate is not really useful. I have called DPD out on this repeatedly as an example of a relatively small mistake that could have ended badly. But it is not the same as shooting and killing a licensed carrier who was an outstanding citizen and was complying with every request and demand of the officer.
    Not the same at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,878
    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    "Police" isn't an entity any more than "black male" is an entity. You cannot extrapolate or interpolate from one department or office to another.
    There is no doubt that many officers in many departments have problems. And racism is alive and well. But let's focus on those things that really help resolve the problems. Chastising DPD beyond what is proportionate is not really useful. I have called DPD out on this repeatedly as an example of a relatively small mistake that could have ended badly. But it is not the same as shooting and killing a licensed carrier who was an outstanding citizen and was complying with every request and demand of the officer.
    Not the same at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    so now a licensed carrier must also be an outstanding citizen? you need to come talk with our Grass Roots president who believes only the "law abiding, sane, and sober" citizens of NC should be issued CHPs. (sidebar...you need either a PPP or CHP to purchase a handgun in NC)

    wait, let me search my memory for a moment for a recent event...Philando Castile ~ ya that is the name that immediately comes to mind...his situation? quote: ...he was shot while reaching for his ID after telling the officer he had a gun permit and was armed. unquote http://www.cbsnews.com/news/funeral-...lando-castile/

    yes noname...i suppose you could label that as "a relatively small mistake" made, which unfortunately did end quite badly for mr castile & his family!!

    you are right about one thing...DPD isn't the only agency where this issue runs rampant against citizens...20 cities are under doj decree at the moment.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-16-2016 at 01:53 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    "Police" isn't an entity any more than "black male" is an entity. You cannot extrapolate or interpolate from one department or office to another.
    There is no doubt that many officers in many departments have problems. And racism is alive and well. But let's focus on those things that really help resolve the problems. Chastising DPD beyond what is proportionate is not really useful. I have called DPD out on this repeatedly as an example of a relatively small mistake that could have ended badly. But it is not the same as shooting and killing a licensed carrier who was an outstanding citizen and was complying with every request and demand of the officer.
    Not the same at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How many members of the DPD came out publicly to say that the actions were inappropriate? None that I know of...so one can extrapolate IMO.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    1,059
    I live here. I know this department. It is clean, although not 100%.
    The chief's son was killed by DPD so he has made it his mission to clean things up. 13 excessive force complaints last year, which is infinitesimal for a city this size, and he tries to make sure every one of those is actually resolved rather than covered up or excused.
    What some of you are advocating is like calling your child a failure because of a low test grade instead of figuring out what happened and fixing it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,878
    well noname...
    as of 2015: dallas is made of of 77.1% white, 13.3% black, 17.6 hispanic citizens (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00)

    yet, according to DPD's 2015 traffic contact data: 25% white, 36.7% black, and 36% hispanic was the breakdown of whom the nice PD stopped during that year. (http://www.dallaspolice.net/reports/...ing_Report.pdf)

    doesn't seem to match your unwavering support for a 'city of this size' as the DPD's own stats show the minorities are being stopped significantly more than the ethnic majority of the city's population ?

    finally, a child, any child, is, until they are appropriately trained expected to make errors in judgement...DPD is a professionally trained LE agency who's entire department is covered by QI and free to literally blow bad guys up w/o any fear of recrimination from the judicial system. for the record...11 Officer involved Shootings for 2015...

    ask the chief if his work ethic loving family while his son was being raised would have led to a better child and outcome for his substance abusing offspring who shot a police officer and bystander...

    hummm i am sure there could be some type of opedipus complex symbolism here as he blew up a cop killing suspect...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-16-2016 at 02:39 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •