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Thread: For black gun owners, bearing arms is a civil rights issue

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    For black gun owners, bearing arms is a civil rights issue

    http://www.theolympian.com/news/nati...e89861312.html

    SNIP

    WASHINGTON — July 15 2016

    In February 2015, Philip Smith started a Facebook group to make space for the often-overlooked concerns of law-abiding, license-carrying gun owners who happen to be African-American.

    Smith was tired of feeling conspicuous as the only black guy at the gun ranges he visited. Surely, he thought, there must be others out there, dealing with the same suspicions he faced when passersby glimpsed the Glock on his hip.

    A year and a half later, Smith counts more than 11,000 members, representing all 50 states.

    Smith’s forum reflects what researchers see as growing interest among African Americans in gun ownership. But becoming a black licensed gun owner is not a risk-free prospect, a fact brought to light this month by the police shooting of Philando Castile, who had a permit to carry a concealed weapon when he was shot in his car July 6, and by the presence at a Dallas rally of perhaps 30 marchers July 7 openly carrying their rifles. Dallas police mistakenly labeled a black licensed gun owner as a “person of interest” after gunman opened fire, killing five police officers.

    Despite the championing in Congress of gun restrictions by black legislators, many African-Americans now see gun ownership as an important civil rights cause, in the spirit of abolitionist Frederick Douglass’ comment in 1867 that a man’s rights lay in three boxes: “the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box.” In African-American gun groups like Smith’s, members are expressing a mix of fear and defiance over the incidents.

    . . .

    “We have a lot of work to do,” Smith said. “We have to buckle down and work for full Second Amendment rights for African-American men and women. We work, we pay taxes and we’re not going to take this second-class treatment anymore. But one person can’t do it. It has to be done by a community.”

    . . .

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    Funny what the brain will do

    As I read the title to this thread my brain inserted the word "powder" right after the word "black". I thought to myself, "How many WalkingWolfs are there out there carrying black powder guns....?"

    Only upon reading it a second time did I realize my mistake.

    I guess I just don't think of race first.

    RKBA should be the great civil rights issues for every American, and especially for unpopular minorities of all kinds. As the Pink Pistols say, "Armed gays don't get bashed." It is to the benefit of RKBA for those other than the stereotypical, white, rural, male to be supporting RKBA.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Despite the championing in Congress of gun restrictions by black legislators, many African-Americans now see gun ownership as an important civil rights cause, in the spirit of abolitionist Frederick Douglass’ comment in 1867 that a man’s rights lay in three boxes: “the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box.” In African-American gun groups like Smith’s, members are expressing a mix of fear and defiance over the incidents.
    That's good news!

    “We have a lot of work to do,” Smith said. “We have to buckle down and work for full Second Amendment rights for African-American men and women. We work, we pay taxes and we’re not going to take this second-class treatment anymore. But one person can’t do it. It has to be done by a community.”
    And we OCers are a part of that community. Let's help them however we can.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Pardon me for asking what may be an "insensitive" question, but in light of the "civil rights" issue and the recent shootings, it makes me wonder if there are any statistics on this.

    What I am curious about is [B]legal/B] African-American carriers, such as Philando Castile, is this:
    1 - What are their levels of completed education;
    2 - What are their income levels;
    3 - Where do they live (Inner city, suburbs, rural);
    4 - What are their political affiliations;
    and 5 - Why do they desire to carry (either OC or CC)?
    not insensitive if the purpose of the question is to obtain knowledge to help rectify the situation:

    * quote: White Americans are the racial majority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17% of the population, making up the largest ethnic minority. The White, non-Hispanic or Latino population make up 62.6% of the nation's total... unquote
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States


    1. 16-24 drop out rate by ethnicity is White: 5.1; black: 7.3; hispanic: 11.7 NOTE: "Status" dropouts are 16- to 24-year-olds who are not enrolled in school and who have not completed a high school program, regardless of when they left school. http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d...sp?current=yes

    according to the Dept of Education, quote: U.S. students are graduating from high school at a higher rate than ever before...graduation rate hit 82 percent in 2013-1... the highest level since states adopted a new uniform way of calculating graduation rates five years ago. unquote http://www.ed.gov/news/press-release...-record-high-0

    "The number of kids in this country who get to be juniors and seniors in high school and think that they’re on track to be successful in college, and they’re not even close, it’s heartbreaking," (Sec of Ed) Duncan told reporters after his speech. http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/dat...tes-is-closing

    2. quote: According to 2014 US Census Data, the highest poverty rate by race is found among Blacks (26%), with Hispanics (of any race) having the second highest poverty rate (24%). Whites had a poverty rate of 10%, while Asians had a poverty rate at 12%. unquote Source: Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2014, U.S. Census Bureau
    2a. quote:
    In 2012, the average monthly participation (added for clarity: US means-tested assistance progrms) rate for Blacks, 41.6 percent, was higher than that of Asians or Pacific Islanders at 17.8 percent and nonHispanic Whites at 13.2 percent...( definition: people who received benefits from any of the following means-tested assistance programs:• Medicaid • Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)2
    • Housing Assistance • Supplemental Security Income (SSI) • Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) • General Assistance (GA) )
    http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Ce...mo/p70-141.pdf

    3. quote:
    There are 19 American cities with populations over 100,000 that have majority (over 50%) Black or African-American populations. These cities are located in the following 13 states: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia, as well as the District of Columbia. unquote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...an_populations

    as to the living conditions of those blacks significantly affected by their poor SES see #2 above.

    4. Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/...y-affiliation/

    5. quote: The new research also suggests a paradox: While blacks are significantly more likely than whites to be gun homicide victims, blacks are only about half as likely as whites to have a firearm in their home (41% vs. 19%). Hispanics are less likely than blacks to be gun homicide victims and half as likely as whites to have a gun at home (20%). unquote
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ng-households/

    Click image for larger version. 

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    cite: see above

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    http://www.theolympian.com/news/nati...e89861312.html

    SNIP

    WASHINGTON — July 15 2016

    In February 2015, Philip Smith started a Facebook group to make space for the often-overlooked concerns of law-abiding, license-carrying gun owners who happen to be African-American.
    Good for him! If I didn't do facebook I would go there and welcome him to OCDO. He needs a pat on the back from the rest of us, maybe one of our facebook members will.

    This is the only gun site I would welcome him to, the others are to biased towards hatred of blacks. One in particular, not only is racism present the mods even take part in it. I am amazed at the amount of racism among the gun community, and it only damages us by keeping voters away from our issues. Sheriff Clarke is a good example, a gun owner/lawman who is black, and a democrat will be voting for Donald Trump.

    I ask those in the larger ethnic groups to rethink their bias, and work towards bringing us together. IMO it is our own fault that over 90% of a minority vote a certain way.

    Here is the link to his site http://www.naaga.co/ since it is not facebook I sent him an invite to visit us, please join me in welcoming them.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-21-2016 at 09:35 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    sidebar...
    1. Do a google search for Philip Smith...gaggles of white folk show up
    2. Do a google search for Philip Smith facebook...gaggles of white folk show up

    did anybody notice there is no location for Philip smith mentioned nor any of the other individuals referenced in posted article?

    things that make you go: hummm...

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    sidebar...
    1. Do a google search for Philip Smith...gaggles of white folk show up
    2. Do a google search for Philip Smith facebook...gaggles of white folk show up

    did anybody notice there is no location for Philip smith mentioned nor any of the other individuals referenced in posted article?

    things that make you go: hummm...

    ipse
    It took me a while to find him, Smith is a very common name. I finally used this search entry "Philip Smith gun group facebook" and it was the first hit. I used my wife's facebook to read his page, and then the link was there for their site.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-21-2016 at 09:40 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Whois: naaga.co

    https://whois.net/
    NATIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION

    Philip Smith is the founder.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    That's to be expected from reading OCDO correspondents that puke onto their keyboards and expect us to pick out their intentions.

    WHOIS is a low level Internet protocol to reveal IP registration details, including the owner, address, admin e-mail.
    ?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Turbod'1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I ask those in the larger ethnic groups to rethink their bias, and work towards bringing us together. IMO it is our own fault that over 90% of a minority vote a certain way.
    And THIS is why we can never have a meaningful talk about race; your comment ITSELF reeks of exceptionalism.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    And THIS is why we can never have a meaningful talk about race; your comment ITSELF reeks of exceptionalism.
    Sorry you see it that way, the fact is, and it is a fact that over 90% of blacks vote for a progressive. Take away the ethnic origin there is no other reason than them being ostracized from society based on their ethnicity. We are all the same species, and we should be welcoming them, this is NOT a white only site.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Turbod'1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Sorry you see it that way, the fact is, and it is a fact that over 90% of blacks vote for a progressive. Take away the ethnic origin there is no other reason than them being ostracized from society based on their ethnicity. We are all the same species, and we should be welcoming them, this is NOT a white only site.
    What site is other than BLATANT racists?

    The real issue is, minorities (can I take it that you're Native American?) seemly use the PAST to justify their current state of affairs.

    And example: I worked as armed security back in the day; well, one particular day a woman walked in with a shirt that said "No Snitchin" and I said to her: "That's part of the problem: if you won't ID a criminal, you're part of the problem and not the solution"... That said, that place was gang bullied, and I get it.

    What I refuse to accept is that > I < am somehow responsible for their culture.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    And THIS is why we can never have a meaningful talk about race; your comment ITSELF reeks of exceptionalism.
    turbod'1, which race are you referring to? Indy? tour de France? KY derby? American's cup?

    and yes this is why we can never have meaningful discussions regarding our citizens' ethnicity, since it is in fact, your comment which reeks of exceptionalism in your misuse of terms since WW used appropriate words to articulate his view(s).

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Turbod'1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    turbod'1, which race are you referring to? Indy? tour de France? KY derby? American's cup?
    So race doesn't exist outside of bikes and cars? That's the best you could come up with?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    snipp...

    What I refuse to accept is that > I < am somehow responsible for their culture.
    nuff said...truly more than nuff...

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    So race doesn't exist outside of bikes and cars? That's the best you could come up with?
    no it doesn't, thanks to the linguists...

    no twasn't the best but i am on a public forum and my best would have you on your tippy toes frothing ~ trust me.

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    What site is other than BLATANT racists?

    The real issue is, minorities (can I take it that you're Native American?) seemly use the PAST to justify their current state of affairs.

    And example: I worked as armed security back in the day; well, one particular day a woman walked in with a shirt that said "No Snitchin" and I said to her: "That's part of the problem: if you won't ID a criminal, you're part of the problem and not the solution"... That said, that place was gang bullied, and I get it.

    What I refuse to accept is that > I < am somehow responsible for their culture.
    I won't post the name of the site in an open post, not all members are in that category, and the site does have it's merits. But the mods do not discourage racist remarks/posts and some even participate. IMO we all are responsible for society's woes, after all we are all part of society.

    I like how you used the word culture instead of saying black, that is the kinda stuff that signals a problem. We are all humans, we share the same organs, our only difference is our outward appearance. The culture/black is not the way you assume because they are black, there are factors that have affected their culture for decades. Most politicians are Caucasian, and they were the biggest factor in their culture. WE elected these politicians.

    I am around a lot of good black people, and they are good, honest, decent people. I have always believed that everybody gets treated the same, that includes young, old, male, female, short, tall, rich, poor, different ethnicity, and different professions.

    If inviting them to our community bothers you, maybe you should take it up with the moderators, and owners.

    I hope you never need a organ transplant and the only one available is from a person from that "culture".
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-21-2016 at 11:23 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Turbod'1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I like how you used the word culture instead of saying black, that is the kinda stuff that signals a problem.
    What made you presume that when I said 'culture' that I meant black? After all, didn't I ask you if YOU were Native American? It seems you presume a lot...

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    no it doesn't, thanks to the linguists...

    no twasn't the best but i am on a public forum and my best would have you on your tippy toes frothing ~ trust me.

    ipse
    For a supposed philosopher, you seem to claim the high ground with your avatar and your
    'old school' speak.

    How much real world interaction have you had AND how much of such would you need to connect the dots?

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Come on, now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    For a supposed philosopher, you seem to claim the high ground with your avatar and your
    'old school' speak.

    How much real world interaction have you had AND how much of such would you need to connect the dots?
    Define "old school." - Just kidding - Can't we all just get along?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    What made you presume that when I said 'culture' that I meant black? After all, didn't I ask you if YOU were Native American? It seems you presume a lot...
    You mean you are here commenting and you did not even bother to read the OP?

    What the hell do you think we are talking about, black, and African American has been mentioned several times. I doubt you are that slow you did not know what culture we are discussing. And I am not slow enough to buy your backtracking.

    What if I told you I was a Jew?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-21-2016 at 11:56 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    What made you presume that when I said 'culture' that I meant black? After all, didn't I ask you if YOU were Native American? It seems you presume a lot...
    BTW, why would you jump to the conclusion WW might be a Native American?

    again, thanks fto the linguists...culture:

    1. N the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
    2. N BIOLOGY
    the cultivation of bacteria, tissue cells, etc., in an artificial medium containing nutrients.
    1 V BIOLOGY -maintain (tissue cells, bacteria, etc.) in conditions suitable for growth.

    i hope this assists you in the proper articulation of ethnic discussions.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-21-2016 at 12:32 PM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    For a supposed philosopher, you seem to claim the high ground with your avatar and your
    'old school' speak.

    How much real world interaction have you had AND how much of such would you need to connect the dots?
    lol...the interaction(s) i have had with the world are known but to a few...

    i have needed very few dots to connect as you have put yours on the table on a public forum...you might examine your own actions per se and determine if you feel the connected dots are truly how you feel.

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If inviting them to our community bothers you, maybe you should take it up with the moderators, and owners.

    I hope you never need a organ transplant and the only one available is from a person from that "culture".
    Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any racism Turbod`1. Accusing racism in the absence of racism is an intellectual lazy way to shut down discussion, as opposed to learning from each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I like how you used the word culture instead of saying black, that is the kinda stuff that signals a problem. We are all humans, we share the same organs, our only difference is our outward appearance. The culture/black is not the way you assume because they are black, there are factors that have affected their culture for decades. Most politicians are Caucasian, and they were the biggest factor in their culture. WE elected these politicians.
    WalkingWolf is still butt-sore over me exposing some of his prejudices and internal inconsistencies a while back and so won't deign to respond. Just as well because what follows is intended for those who don't cry "racism" or "bigotry" at the first hint of disagreement. Those willing to read something longer than a tweat might find something to think about. Those who find anything beyond 100 characters taxing, can stop reading now.

    Not a lot of blacks in Utah. Utah never had any significant number of slaves, and it was never a major industrial area in need of cheap labor. And stereotypes notwithstanding, not much racism, very little hate. Some ignorance and political incorrectness, to be sure. But not much real hatred. My high school history teacher told us of two interesting accounts from his younger days.

    He related seeing the buses from California coming through our Southern Utah town full of American citizens of Japanese ancestry who were being forcibly "relocated" to the Topaz internment camp. The two families of Japanese descent who lived in our town, however, were left entirely unmolested. One, they were outside the sensitive areas covered by FDR's relocation order. Two, it was a small town, everyone knew everyone else, and there was no question as to the loyalties of this family.

    He also mentioned an incident in the 50s or 60s when the KKK came through town attempting to recruit members. Lots of leaflets. Not any success. The homogenous Utah hicks just didn't have any interest in being hateful or keeping anyone down.

    That said, I recently had a very interesting and enlightening discussion with a colleague who happens to be black. He is a well educated, very competent engineer with an upper middle class income a lovely family. His extended family are primarily in one of the large, northern industrial areas. In discussing the conditions there he said simply and starkly, "They want to have the same lifestyle and results I have, but they are not willing to make the changes to their culture that would bring about those results. You can' choose to live like they choose to live and have a good job and live in a safe neighborhood. It takes work and education, and more work."

    He then went on to say something else, "But in some ways, the culture is their identity. The white man forced us out of his culture so we made our own. We have our own dialect, we name our children differently than white folks name theirs. And a lot of is all about a big 'F you' to the culture that segregated us and kept us down for so long."

    It wasn't the words so much as the intensity, even anger, with which he said these final statements that took be back.

    Intellectually, he recognizes that his extended family members and others living in the black culture could choose to work hard, get an education and job skills, and live the American dream like he has done. Emotionally there is still anger that justifies not making those choices but instead living in a culture that defines identity separate from the white man.

    I do not accept responsibility for the problems within the poor inner-city (or "black") culture. I wasn't alive in 1700, or 1860, or even 1960. Nobody in my family owned slaves or pushed for Jim Crow laws.

    But after listening honestly and without judgment to someone with a different perspective, I think I have a little better understanding of the challenges and dichotomy those in that culture face.

    It strikes me as very similar to the challenges of the American Indians in this part of the nation. Their identity is often wrapped up in the Reservation system. It is a false identity in that the Reservation lifestyle was imposed by force of the US Government / Military in the late 19th and early 20th century. It bears very little resemblance to the hunter/gatherer, nomadic lifestyle that the tribes of the Great Basin region. But it seems to be the only identity they have.

    Sadly, in most cases, the culture of the reservation is one of living on the dole, alcoholism, drug addiction, unwed pregnancy and birth, and a shunning of eduation and literacy and most anything else associated with the "white man's ways". The resulting poverty, health problems, violent crime, and other personal and social ills are easily predicted and heartbreaking.

    Like blacks living in the inner city, Navajos (and Apaches, and Utes) living on the Reservation are perfectly free to make different choices, to leave the reservation and live the American dream. There are scholarship programs a plenty and outreach from Universities begging these kids to stay in school and then come to college.

    But when academic success in grade school is reason to be shunned, when getting pregnant at 15 and formally dropping out of high school is the norm, when alcohol and drug abuse and violence are a normal part of life, a lot of choices can be foreclosed long before a kid reaches the age when he might be expected to start making choices for himself.

    I've repeatedly written here and said elsewhere that it is greatly to the advantage of the RKBA community to have members who are not middle-aged, white, Christian, heterosexual men. Women in fear of or who have survived a rape are much harder to dismiss than are healthy middle aged men. Racial minorities facing potential hate crimes or living in high crime neighbors make a more powerful case for personal ownership and carrying of self-defense guns than do popular majorities living in gated communities. Homosexuals subject to bashing can appeal to left-leaning politicians far better than I can. We should not only welcome, but actively recruit anyone we can to the RKBA community. That goes double for anyone who looks different than does the stereotypical "redneck" gun owner.

    It would be good for our nation if we could figure out how to solve inter-racial challenges. Such would tremendously good for individuals living in cultures--that often correlate strongly with or are even defined by racial or ethnic demographics--whose mores result in poverty, violence, addiction, and other ills.

    I don't claim to know how to do that. I'm pretty sure it will require being willing to listen to some things with which we disagree, and which make us uncomfortable, without trying to shut down the conversation by resorting to claims of "racism", bigotry, or laziness, stupidity, or any other character flaw. That is as true for racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities as it is for white men.

    Charles

  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Maybe I missed something, snipp..

    Those who find anything beyond 100 characters taxing, can stop reading now.

    Not a lot of blacks in Utah.

    That said, I recently had a very interesting and enlightening discussion with a colleague who happens to be black. He is a well educated, very competent engineer with an upper middle class income a lovely family.

    But after listening honestly and without judgment to someone with a different perspective,

    snipped

    Charles
    you are right mate there are not a lot of blacks in UTAH, 2000 census, whites make up 95.2%, while blacks account for only 1.14%!!

    let's understand this, you had a conversation with a well educated black individual making six figures who works as an eng for an aerospace company... ya that is representative of that SES cohort. they do not have a different perspective ~ from your white middle class elitist background.

    how bout we put your 'gee i want to talk to a group of minority, SES citizens' in the middle of detroit's slums to talk about your polite chit chat questions and see about the anger manifesting from them.

    finally, you are right, you can not do anything for SES blacks, natives, or other entities as you lack the ability.

    guess what, no book mate just pointing out your fallible logic....

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-21-2016 at 09:01 PM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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