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Thread: Anyone else sees an issue with facts not admissible being able to support PC?

  1. #1
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    Anyone else sees an issue with facts not admissible being able to support PC?

    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news...in-8382474.php

    The $2 roadside tests, which officers use to help establish probable cause for an arrest, cannot be used at trial as evidence under Texas law.

    How can a test that not admissible be used to establish PC? That's crazy.

    Currently, I am examining my state lab's criminal lab testing methods and validation studies and have found issues with every one I have completed an examination of....big enough issues to make the test results unreliable IMO.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    you have to subscribe before you can read that story. no thank you.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    you have to subscribe before you can read that story. no thank you.
    Always concerned with this issue ... I can read w/o doing so. Why? I don't know. Try again?

  4. #4
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    Anyone else sees an issue with facts not admissible being able to support PC?

    "Anyone else sees an issue with facts not admissible being able to support PC?"

    These tests are so unreliable as to not result in true facts. And 'subscription' is required at that website. I am familiar with the issue from other interests and reading. I'll see if I can't link to an article.

    First I see McBeth's featured at John Wesley Hall's FourthAmendment.com. If McBeth first noted the article/issue there, then he needs to give appropriate credit.

    Ahh, here is an article that I had previously read.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/n...lice-drug-kits

    https://www.propublica.org/article/c...alse-positives

    The issue is of sensitivity and specificity, and practically applied Bayesian Statistics which are so foreign to common ways of thought, most being taught frequentist-statistics, that naive untrained medical professionals perform no better than laypeople at tests of Bayesianism.

    Here, have fun with this app:
    https://kennis-research.shinyapps.io/Bayes-App/

    and
    http://www.openepi.com/Menu/OE_Menu.htm

    The Wikipedia article Cobalt thiocyanate describes the chemistry of the test and includes diphenhydramine as a false positive. Diphenhydramine is my preferred OTC sleep aid, after ethanol that is.

    Probability Theory: The Logic of Science is my fundamental textbook on Bayesian Inference, though primarily as applied to physics. I cared enough to pay almost $100 just to have a copy that I could scribble in. Author E. T. Jaynes is the originator of the principle of Maximum Entropy - Max Ent - that says, in so many words, don't be stupid naive with an extreme guess that paints one into a corner. The proper subjective naive prior is maybe, p = 0.5. Jaynes also originated the term concept of ad-hockery.

    https://www.amazon.com/Probability-T.../dp/0521592712
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-17-2016 at 04:20 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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