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Thread: John Pierce; Don't give up rights just to make it easier to police large events.

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    John Pierce; Don't give up rights just to make it easier to police large events.

    Open-carry advocates say that criminals almost never openly carry firearms. And if law-abiding citizens fail to demonstrate their right to carry guns, they risk losing it, they add.

    “We’re sympathetic to law enforcement being concerned about their safety, but that doesn’t mean we give up citizens’ rights just to make it easier to police large events,” said John Pierce, co-founder of national advocacy group OpenCarry.org.
    [ ... ]
    Police in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, have been trying and failing to restrict the open carrying of guns for years. The state attorney general argues that citizens have a constitutional right to publicly display weapons, which cannot be overruled by city authorities.

    “I wish more of our legislators could see past the ideology,” said Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn. “They have no concern about the impact in urban environments that are already plagued by too many guns and too much violence."

    Flynn attracted gun owners’ ire when he told his officers in 2009 to detain open carriers despite the attorney general’s ruling. Flynn said his department has since “adapted” to the state law.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0ZZ0BQ

    Meanwhile our conservative blowtorch WTMJ PROGlodyte talkjock is at the GOP Convention, "I support the Second Amendment, b-b-b-but but but ... not open carry, not everywhere, only when I feel good about it!". He is gibbering shrilly. TRUMP the establishment TRUMP 2016
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    We neither intend to make anyone's job easier nor harder.

    We do intend to promote and defend our G*d given right to protect ourselves and our loved ones. That you can take to the bank.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    We have seen shooters dress like SWAT officers, what stops them from dressing as police officers. While it is against the law, they are going to commit a crime in the first place. I don't see how it would make it easier to police by disarming citizens. In fact encourage it and the police can sit it out in the air conditioning of their station, or cars.
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    Me OCing does not make a cop's job more difficult, that cop has to exert himself to hassle me for OCing.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    SAFETY V. RIGHTS section heading of story

    Odd, I feel safer with a gun than without one. I'm sure everyone would. Thos who don't want to carry and don't feel safe? Stay home.

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    Citizens have a right to keep an bear arms-- 2A federal constitution..

    Citizens do not have a right to be "police officers or government agents--- Oliver Wendell Holmes

    If the job of policing is to difficult because citizens are exercising their 2A constitutional right, then please find another JOB!

    My .02

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We neither intend to make anyone's job easier nor harder.

    We do intend to promote and defend our G*d given right to protect ourselves and our loved ones. That you can take to the bank.
    Is "God" one of the words instilled in your vBulletin's black list? If so, have you thought of simply removing it?

    God is not a dirty word.

    Well, this seemed to post just fine, so... Nevermind.
    Last edited by since9; 12-10-2016 at 04:07 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Is "God" one of the words instilled in your vBulletin's black list? If so, have you thought of simply removing it?

    God is not a dirty word.

    Well, this seemed to post just fine, so... Nevermind.
    Well said, and I agree. Thank God it works!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Open-carry advocates say that criminals almost never openly carry firearms. And if law-abiding citizens fail to demonstrate their right to carry guns, they risk losing it, they add.
    Agreed.

    “We’re sympathetic to law enforcement being concerned about their safety, but that doesn’t mean we give up citizens’ rights just to make it easier to police large events,” said John Pierce, co-founder of national advocacy group OpenCarry.org.
    [ ... ]
    Agreed.

    Police in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, have been trying and failing to restrict the open carrying of guns for years. The state attorney general argues that citizens have a constitutional right to publicly display weapons, which cannot be overruled by city authorities.
    Believe it or not, the word "display" is written into my lease, as in, "List of prohibited behaviors: Public display of firearms." They consider it grounds for immediate termination of the lease, which means "No open carry to/from my apartment until I am off the property.

    I really hate the word "display" as it's very ambiguous. Is it a synonym for open carry, which, along with concealed carry is not only lawful under the the Colorado Revised Statutes, the Colorado State Constitution, and the United States Constitution -- "the supreme Law of the Land," but which is also protected any any infringement under our U.S. Constitution? Or is it a synonym for brandishing, which is not specifically defined in the Colorado Revised Statutes, but which is covered under disorderly conduct and menacing? Since the apartment complex fails to define it, and since Open Carry is lawful in Colorado, it would be both rational and reasonable for me to assume the apartment complex would never attempt to deny or deprive either myself or others of our U.S. and Colorado State Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and that their use of the term "display" is synonymous with what is prohibited by Colorado State law, namely, disorderly conduct and menacing. Furthermore, should the apartment complex attempt to terminate my lease, I am certain

    Why should law-abiding citizens of the State of Colorado be penalized by paranoid landlords for going about our normal, routine, and lawful business as defined by local, county, state, and federal law?

    And they are indeed paranoid, when they listen to the complaints of perhaps 5% of their similarly paranoid tenants while ignoring the silence of perhaps 95% of their remaining tenants.

    This problem isn't limited to Colorado. It occurs in many if not most states. Until either state legislators, or preferrably, U.S. Congress stops monkeying around and passes legislation that fully agrees with and enforces our Second Amendment's "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," then local, county, state, and federal law enforcement personel, and, yes, even landlords, will continue to infringe on our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

    Hmm... That was succinct. I think I'll post it as a new thread.

    In the meantime...

    “I wish more of our legislators could see past the ideology,” said Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn. “They have no concern about the impact in urban environments that are already plagued by too many guns and too much violence."
    Guns aren't the problem. They have never been the problem, any more than knives or clubs. The problem involves generations of people in the inner cities who have been raised to consider the use of weapons as an offensive measure instead of a defensive measure.

    Flynn attracted gun owners’ ire when he told his officers in 2009 to detain open carriers despite the attorney general’s ruling. Flynn said his department has since “adapted” to the state law.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0ZZ0BQ
    Meanwhile our conservative blowtorch WTMJ PROGlodyte talkjock is at the GOP Convention, "I support the Second Amendment, b-b-b-but but but ... not open carry, not everywhere, only when I feel good about it!". He is gibbering shrilly. TRUMP the establishment TRUMP 2016[/QUOTE]

    "WTMJ?"
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Meanwhile our conservative blowtorch WTMJ PROGlodyte talkjock is at the GOP Convention, "I support the Second Amendment, b-b-b-but but but ... not open carry, not everywhere, only when I feel good about it!". He is gibbering shrilly. TRUMP the establishment TRUMP 2016
    "WTMJ?"[/QUOTE]AM 620

    I think next week is Charlie 'McCarthy' Sykes' last week. He can't stand the heat so he's getting out of the kitchen. I think he's going to run the Food Pantry charity in Sherman Park
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We neither intend to make anyone's job easier nor harder.

    We do intend to promote and defend our G*d given right to protect ourselves and our loved ones. That you can take to the bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Is "God" one of the words instilled in your vBulletin's black list? If so, have you thought of simply removing it?

    God is not a dirty word.

    Well, this seemed to post just fine, so... Nevermind.
    Quote Originally Posted by SP101 View Post
    Well said, and I agree. Thank God it works!
    No G*d is not a banned word. Were it banned it would apear as ***.

    The word/name is posted by me in that manner as a trait instilled in me by a Jewish BSA scoutmaster - a man of high ideals. Nothing more, nothing less is intended.

    Without further ado, back to the intended topic of this thread, please.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The word/name is posted by me in that manner as a trait instilled in me by a Jewish BSA scoutmaster - a man of high ideals.
    Ah, now my light bulb awakens!

    Understood.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    So... How else could we make it easier to police large events while preserving our right to keep and bear arms?

    1. The old-fashioned standby: Bullet-proof glass.

    2. Use a magician's box mirror trick and have speakers actually below the stage, protected by the art of reflection, as well as perhaps a large construction refuse bin filled with sand. Or a Metalith.

    3. Big-screen TV's with the candidate off-site.

    4. Regular TV's aka State of the Union and special addresses to the nation.

    5. The Internet, as it handles all of the above while allowing people to sit at their desks, TV's, tablets, and even phones.

    But if you want a private or small audience with someone like the President of the United States, even the most trusted individuals in government are not allowed to carry firearms into the Oval Office. Only the top rung of the Secret Service.

    Quite frankly, that stands to reason. If someone wanted to enter my home carrying a firearm, my answer would be "No" unless I trusted the individual throughout long association. In this town, that comes to less than 15 people.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "WTMJ?"
    AM 620

    I think next week is Charlie 'McCarthy' Sykes' last week. He can't stand the heat so he's getting out of the kitchen. I think he's going to run the Food Pantry charity in Sherman Park[/QUOTE]


    Charlie picked his side and he lost it always seems to me Charlie was always a pro gun guy as long as the guys with the guns were the Right people.

    I don't think losing Charlie on the air well be a great loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    So... How else could we make it easier to police large events while preserving our right to keep and bear arms?

    1. The old-fashioned standby: Bullet-proof glass.

    2. Use a magician's box mirror trick and have speakers actually below the stage, protected by the art of reflection, as well as perhaps a large construction refuse bin filled with sand. Or a Metalith.

    3. Big-screen TV's with the candidate off-site.

    4. Regular TV's aka State of the Union and special addresses to the nation.

    5. The Internet, as it handles all of the above while allowing people to sit at their desks, TV's, tablets, and even phones.

    But if you want a private or small audience with someone like the President of the United States, even the most trusted individuals in government are not allowed to carry firearms into the Oval Office. Only the top rung of the Secret Service.

    Quite frankly, that stands to reason. If someone wanted to enter my home carrying a firearm, my answer would be "No" unless I trusted the individual throughout long association. In this town, that comes to less than 15 people.
    Why would cops need to be there unless some is actually breaking the law?

    I say, have police dept.s work like fire dept.s .... have a station and send them out on calls...no need for them to aimlessly driving around

    Get by with 1/3rd of size of PD IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Why would cops need to be there unless some is actually breaking the law?

    I say, have police dept.s work like fire dept.s .... have a station and send them out on calls...no need for them to aimlessly driving around

    Get by with 1/3rd of size of PD IMO
    their mentality is 'presence' deters ~ not sure it is a value added concept...
    hummm, didn't assist in Orlando's massacre (sidebar, interestingly nothing, nada, nary a follow-up, has been mentioned of the nice LE stationed inside the club who reportedly fired across the dance floor and the alleged assailant.

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    their mentality is 'presence' deters ~ not sure it is a value added concept...
    hummm, didn't assist in Orlando's massacre (sidebar, interestingly nothing, nada, nary a follow-up, has been mentioned of the nice LE stationed inside the club who reportedly fired across the dance floor and the alleged assailant.

    ipse
    I'm sure the donut store employees are happy...we are paying 3K $$$ a yr to protect local donut stores?

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